Last smoking day in Holland

remus

Its entirely possible to go for a car journey without doing any harm to yourself. The same can not be said for smoking.

Frederik

Its entirely possible to go for a car journey without doing any harm to yourself. The same can not be said for smoking.

Not sure what kind of cars you drive in, Remus,...?!?
Ever heard about car accidents..?? Even while you're all by yourself..??

remus

The point is that your not definitely going to do yourself any harm in a car, whereas smoking causes guarenteed harm.

Add to that the fact that it is addictive and it seems like a pretty bad combination to me.

bubbalove

Stinkie... haha!

As for smoking... they've started to ban smoking in most public places around my home town. I'm a smoker (cigs) and I don't mind them telling me that I can't smoke in certain places. Especially in restaurants... I for one don't like people blowing their smoke all over me when I'm trying to eat and I wouldn't do the same to others! But, when it comes to bars that's a whole different story in my opinion. It should be a known fact by now that people like to smoke when they drink (most people anyways). So just give me a damn box I can go smoke in and I'll be happy. Oh, don't try to preach about the health factors of cigarettes and pot... I could care less!

remus

@unknownuser said:

Oh, don't try to preach about the health factors of cigarettes and pot... I could care less!

I guessing thats meant to be a 'couldnt'

And i dont mind if you want to smoke, go for it, i just think its pretty stupid to legalise something that is known to cause harm.

remus

Of course there are many other things that have an effect on a persons health, but it is very hard to argue that someone who smoked 20 a day for 10 years is going to be in better physical condition than someone leading a similar lifestyle but not smoking.

Frederik

I assume that we can all agree that smoking isn't healthy...

However, claiming that "smoking causes guarenteed harm" is IMO an exaggeration...!
Or go ask my grandmother... She was a heavy smoker (at least 20 cigarettes a day and sometimes even a cheroot) but still she stayed alive until she was 93 years old...!!
You can find many like her, who have smoked since they were very young (15 years of age) and although they've been smoking many cigarettes for many years, they still manage to stay alive beyond others who have never touched smoking...

During the past year, I've become unpleasantly acquainted with 3 people who have died of lung cancer, but for all 3 persons none of them have been smokers - or even claimed passive smokers... The last one died close to Easter this year... She only became 9 years old...
And no - her parents didn't smoke..!!

I believe we're surrounded by many other things in the environment that are far more dangerous to our health...!!

But - of course - the combination with being a smoker is beyond dispute NOT healthy...

Bep

Dear remus,

Its living itself that kills you eventuely.
Suposingly, the less you spoil yourself,the longer you live.

But I like Strong coffie ,a nice piece of meat, sigarets, (Sketchup), All kinds of alcohol, driving faster than the speed limits and burning petrol, having my own sexual preferences, and being a atheist.

Trough history it has bin a sinn to seek comfort in anything else than the excepted relegion.
Sinners are there to convert, burn them on a stake, or let them pay off there sins.(taxes)

There are only a few budhist monks from whom is claimed they are not addicted to anything.
But they cant stop meditating.

Bep

Mike Lucey

I'm a smoker as many of you know. If I could take a 'magic pill'
to stop, I would, most smoker would also. We don't really enjoy
them, we only enjoy for a short time (approx 20 mins)to satisfying
our mental and physical addictions.

I saw a news item about the ban in Holland tonight. Its seems
that the Coffee Shops will be allowed to partition areas so
that smokers can indulge provided staff do not have to enter.
I think that's a fair compromise, its the same in Spain but
without the requirement for partitioning just dedicated areas
in premises that are over a certain size. Small bars have the
option to go Smoking or Non Smoke, well at least for the present.

In the news item about Holland it mentioned that the weed can
be taken in the coffee shops provided no tobacco is involved,
there are lots of devices for the operation so I imagine it will
not effect business too much. It might even increase business
as non smokers might give it a try!

From what I understand, while marijuana is not legal in Holland
it is 'overlooked' and tolerated in Amsterdam in particular. One
interviewee commented that in order to ban pot, they would first
have to legalise it

I imagine if alcohol consumption by humans was not a practice
today there would be NO possibility of it being legalised by
any Governments. It does cause a lot more premature deaths in
society than tobacco or pot does after all

Mike

plot-paris

I think of the smoking ban in public buildings as a very good idea!
not only because I am a non smoker, but simply because of the following fact:

if you smoke, you affect people surrounding you (in contrast to drinking, where you may become an unpleasant fellow... but you only harm yourself).
if someone drinks alkohol, I can decide not to drink.
if someone smokes however, I am forced to inhale the smoke of his cigarets, if I want or not. and besides the fact that even passive smoking is highly unhealthy (of course not every cigaret lover dies from lung cancer and of course not everyone, dying from lung cancer is a cigaret lover - but it is without a question unhealthy) it is simply disgusting how my clothes always stank, when I was out for a drink! thank god the ban became active in Germany and England some time ago. I really enjoy going out now.

and the fear of pub owners, that their customers would abandon them, is completely causeless. people simply go outside to have a cigaret and then go back inside to have another pint.

I think eventually it will help people (like my flatmates, who desperately try) to reduce the amount of cigarets they are smoking - simply out of lazyness.

ScottPara

Eventually anything in excess will kill you (or so I believe). To say driving your car around does no harm....what about the exhaust that is blasted into the air for everyone to breathe? So as long as you are not smoking in your diesel blowing black smoke you are better than someone enjoying a smoke outside? I would say not. As far as the legalization of pot or anything else, if the government wants to fix a budget....legalize pot and many other drugs and tax the hell out of them. There are more gated communities out where I live that have their fair share of powered noses living inside. While I am a smoker and do enjoy it at times, I will be quitting. Not so much for myself, but for my daughter. She needs me and I do understand that taking in smoke (in any form) has never been shown to be good. So for that reason alone I will quit. Not because or all the ranting or crap I get but because of that little one.

Scott

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plot-paris

@unknownuser said:

...you are better than someone enjoying a smoke outside?

thats the point. nobody will complain, if people smoke outside.
I even experienced that it is a nice addition to the normal evenings behavour. before that people simply sat at the table, drinking (and smoking).
now once in a while people stand up to get a bit of fresh air (well, fresh? ).
I acompany friends outside very often. not only because we are in the middle of a discussion, but because I do enjoy a bit of activity. that is something I didn't use to do previous to the smoking ban...

Ross Macintosh

Where I live we are definitely moving of the direction of banning smoking from outdoor public areas. No more just going outside for a smoke if outside means a public sidewalk. We already have bans of smoking on many public properties. If a teacher wants a smoke on her break she is expected to get completely off the school property to do so. As you drive around, even rural areas, you may see a small group of people standing around at the end of the driveway many metres away from the buildings. They are the smokers and you'll see them even in the blustery winter weather, standing in the slush.

We have zero smoking in bars and restaurants -- no smoking areas at all - indoors or out. No smokers decks or patios. The mood of many is definitely towards further restrictions on smokers. Many (and not just anti-smoking activists) are really bothered by smokers who toss their butts out car windows or who stomp them out on the sidewalk. There are calls to arrest such smokers for littering & hit them with significant fines.

Some places in Canada now even have bans on smoking in your own car if there are children on board. Activists want bans if there are pets in the car.

Stores selling cigarettes here aren't allowed to have them on display. The retailers keep them in cabinets behind the cash -- buyers have to ask for a brand as retailers can't open the cabinets to show them the selection. The packages have huge health warnings that take up a significant portion of the package 'real estate'. They'll have very bold messages like "Smoking Kills" or "Smoking Causes Impotence".

Regards, Ross

PS - I should add that in my adult years it would seem there has been a significant decline in the numbers of smokers here. The stereotypical smoker here now is either a poor low-educated person or a teenage girl. I work in an office of twelve people - nobody smokes. When I think of the people in my neighborhood - nobody smokes.

Stinkie

I read in the paper today puffing weed in coffeeshops will remain legal (well... "legal" ), but one can only smoke weed - there's no tobacco allowed in your joint. Which is fairly strange, as weed's even unhealthier than tobacco.

In the long run, I realize that, all these new laws are for the better. But this is idiotic: "If a teacher wants a smoke on her break she is expected to get completely off the school property to do so." There's really no rational reason for this.

kwistenbiebel

I heard that scratching your ass in public will soon be illegal.
Also having 1 finger up your nose while talking to a stranger will be illegal.
Two fingers, no problem.
Damn rules.

plot-paris

@kwistenbiebel said:

Also having 1 finger up your nose while talking to a stranger will be illegal.

but thats only because you dont emmit harmful substances when both your nostrils are blocked...

no, honestly. as long as your actions do not harm others (or yourself beyond tolerable measure (what is tolerable? )they won't be prohibited.
and of course things, that may harm your surroundings, but are inevitalbe, will still be legal (the average human farts 15 times a day )

Ross Macintosh

@unknownuser said:

But this is idiotic: "If a teacher wants a smoke on her break she is expected to get completely off the school property to do so." There's really no rational reason for this.

Well, before the ban when the nonsmoker visited a public building they'd often have to move through a huddle of smokers camped outside the front door under the canopy. The ground would be littered with butts. In the case of schools, the children entering the school could also face this.

Furthermore, in buildings with operable windows (remember them?) the smoke would enter the building. Depending on the design the smoke could also enter the fresh air intakes of the building.

Harassing smokers like this (plus taxing the hell out of them) does result in smoking being far less socially acceptable. Rates of smoking are in decline.

By the way the main reason banning all smoking from restaurants from bars & restaurants succeded is to protect the health of staff at the establishments. Most people here would agree it is isn't right to make a waitress have to serve patrons in a smoking area and it isn't right to only give jobs to smokers. I don't believe it is legal for an employer to ask a job applicant if they smoke - as doing so could result in discrimination.