Last smoking day in Holland

solo · 30 Jun 2008, 14:18

So what about the coffee shops? Is weed okay but tobbacco not?

Burkhard · 30 Jun 2008, 16:13

Yes solo, my wife also told me about the difference between me and her, or the dangerous of tobacco smoking ( I'm the tobacco man )

bubbalove · 30 Jun 2008, 16:28

So y'all are basically going against the american way which is that cigarettes are okay (as long as the big shots make their money) and weed is bad... what the hell?

ScottPara · 30 Jun 2008, 16:56

EXACTLY, if the government could get their hands around weed to make money they would too. Problem is as much as they say they can they can't. They are not so much concerned with anyones health as much as they are the almighty dollar. I say legalize it all and let it pan itself out in the end. Sure there will be those who abuse it but who isn't now. After a while it will become the norm and it will settle down.

Scott

bubbalove · 30 Jun 2008, 17:18

Yup... farmers here in NC that used to grow tobacco to make a living now can barely afford to own the farm. Why not just let them grow the hemp not only for smoking purposes but also for clothing, paper, string... the list goes on. There is soo much money to be made off of it but I guess the government is afraid that everyone will drive too slow or something. All they would have to do is sell the pot at black market prices to drive the drug dealers out of business. It seems logical to me!

remus · 30 Jun 2008, 17:19

I can see no good reason why something that does harm to the population should be legalised.

Remember that this is only a ban in public places as well, anyone is welcome to smoke in their own homes and (i assume) open spaces.

Stinkie · 30 Jun 2008, 17:24

Though I'm a smoker, I'm not against these kind of measures. We can't smoke in restaurants anymore in Belgium, and I think that's a good thing. I hate it when people smoke while I'm eating. I'm sure many people feel the same.

That said, what definition of "public places" is the Dutch government using? Is smoking in bars now illegal too? That'd be weird. Tad sad, too.

And yeah ... how 'bout them coffeeshops? Will this new law change the nature of my relationship with Holland?

Oh yeah ... just say no!

@ Bubba: I see that picture of you in a whole new light now.

Bep · 30 Jun 2008, 17:51

[quote="remus"]I can see no good reason why something that does harm to the population should be legalised.

%(#FF0000)["Cars are legalised".

Bep]

remus · 30 Jun 2008, 18:02

Its entirely possible to go for a car journey without doing any harm to yourself. The same can not be said for smoking.

Frederik · 30 Jun 2008, 18:09

@remus said:

Its entirely possible to go for a car journey without doing any harm to yourself. The same can not be said for smoking.

Not sure what kind of cars you drive in, Remus,...?!?
Ever heard about car accidents..?? Even while you're all by yourself..??

remus · 30 Jun 2008, 18:31

The point is that your not definitely going to do yourself any harm in a car, whereas smoking causes guarenteed harm.

Add to that the fact that it is addictive and it seems like a pretty bad combination to me.

bubbalove · 30 Jun 2008, 18:54

Stinkie... haha!

As for smoking... they've started to ban smoking in most public places around my home town. I'm a smoker (cigs) and I don't mind them telling me that I can't smoke in certain places. Especially in restaurants... I for one don't like people blowing their smoke all over me when I'm trying to eat and I wouldn't do the same to others! But, when it comes to bars that's a whole different story in my opinion. It should be a known fact by now that people like to smoke when they drink (most people anyways). So just give me a damn box I can go smoke in and I'll be happy. Oh, don't try to preach about the health factors of cigarettes and pot... I could care less!

remus · 30 Jun 2008, 19:00

@unknownuser said:

Oh, don't try to preach about the health factors of cigarettes and pot... I could care less!

I guessing thats meant to be a 'couldnt'

And i dont mind if you want to smoke, go for it, i just think its pretty stupid to legalise something that is known to cause harm.

remus · 30 Jun 2008, 19:08

Of course there are many other things that have an effect on a persons health, but it is very hard to argue that someone who smoked 20 a day for 10 years is going to be in better physical condition than someone leading a similar lifestyle but not smoking.

Frederik · 30 Jun 2008, 19:08

I assume that we can all agree that smoking isn't healthy...

However, claiming that "smoking causes guarenteed harm" is IMO an exaggeration...!
Or go ask my grandmother... She was a heavy smoker (at least 20 cigarettes a day and sometimes even a cheroot) but still she stayed alive until she was 93 years old...!!
You can find many like her, who have smoked since they were very young (15 years of age) and although they've been smoking many cigarettes for many years, they still manage to stay alive beyond others who have never touched smoking...

During the past year, I've become unpleasantly acquainted with 3 people who have died of lung cancer, but for all 3 persons none of them have been smokers - or even claimed passive smokers... The last one died close to Easter this year... She only became 9 years old...
And no - her parents didn't smoke..!!

I believe we're surrounded by many other things in the environment that are far more dangerous to our health...!!

But - of course - the combination with being a smoker is beyond dispute NOT healthy...

Bep · 30 Jun 2008, 20:22

Dear remus,

Its living itself that kills you eventuely.
Suposingly, the less you spoil yourself,the longer you live.

But I like Strong coffie ,a nice piece of meat, sigarets, (Sketchup), All kinds of alcohol, driving faster than the speed limits and burning petrol, having my own sexual preferences, and being a atheist.

Trough history it has bin a sinn to seek comfort in anything else than the excepted relegion.
Sinners are there to convert, burn them on a stake, or let them pay off there sins.(taxes)

There are only a few budhist monks from whom is claimed they are not addicted to anything.
But they cant stop meditating.

Bep

Mike Lucey · 30 Jun 2008, 21:18

I'm a smoker as many of you know. If I could take a 'magic pill'
to stop, I would, most smoker would also. We don't really enjoy
them, we only enjoy for a short time (approx 20 mins)to satisfying
our mental and physical addictions.

I saw a news item about the ban in Holland tonight. Its seems
that the Coffee Shops will be allowed to partition areas so
that smokers can indulge provided staff do not have to enter.
I think that's a fair compromise, its the same in Spain but
without the requirement for partitioning just dedicated areas
in premises that are over a certain size. Small bars have the
option to go Smoking or Non Smoke, well at least for the present.

In the news item about Holland it mentioned that the weed can
be taken in the coffee shops provided no tobacco is involved,
there are lots of devices for the operation so I imagine it will
not effect business too much. It might even increase business
as non smokers might give it a try!

From what I understand, while marijuana is not legal in Holland
it is 'overlooked' and tolerated in Amsterdam in particular. One
interviewee commented that in order to ban pot, they would first
have to legalise it

I imagine if alcohol consumption by humans was not a practice
today there would be NO possibility of it being legalised by
any Governments. It does cause a lot more premature deaths in
society than tobacco or pot does after all

Mike

plot-paris · 1 Jul 2008, 07:10

I think of the smoking ban in public buildings as a very good idea!
not only because I am a non smoker, but simply because of the following fact:

if you smoke, you affect people surrounding you (in contrast to drinking, where you may become an unpleasant fellow... but you only harm yourself).
if someone drinks alkohol, I can decide not to drink.
if someone smokes however, I am forced to inhale the smoke of his cigarets, if I want or not. and besides the fact that even passive smoking is highly unhealthy (of course not every cigaret lover dies from lung cancer and of course not everyone, dying from lung cancer is a cigaret lover - but it is without a question unhealthy) it is simply disgusting how my clothes always stank, when I was out for a drink! thank god the ban became active in Germany and England some time ago. I really enjoy going out now.

and the fear of pub owners, that their customers would abandon them, is completely causeless. people simply go outside to have a cigaret and then go back inside to have another pint.

I think eventually it will help people (like my flatmates, who desperately try) to reduce the amount of cigarets they are smoking - simply out of lazyness.

ScottPara · 1 Jul 2008, 11:05

Eventually anything in excess will kill you (or so I believe). To say driving your car around does no harm....what about the exhaust that is blasted into the air for everyone to breathe? So as long as you are not smoking in your diesel blowing black smoke you are better than someone enjoying a smoke outside? I would say not. As far as the legalization of pot or anything else, if the government wants to fix a budget....legalize pot and many other drugs and tax the hell out of them. There are more gated communities out where I live that have their fair share of powered noses living inside. While I am a smoker and do enjoy it at times, I will be quitting. Not so much for myself, but for my daughter. She needs me and I do understand that taking in smoke (in any form) has never been shown to be good. So for that reason alone I will quit. Not because or all the ranting or crap I get but because of that little one.

Scott

plot-paris · 1 Jul 2008, 11:16

@unknownuser said:

...you are better than someone enjoying a smoke outside?

thats the point. nobody will complain, if people smoke outside.
I even experienced that it is a nice addition to the normal evenings behavour. before that people simply sat at the table, drinking (and smoking).
now once in a while people stand up to get a bit of fresh air (well, fresh? ).
I acompany friends outside very often. not only because we are in the middle of a discussion, but because I do enjoy a bit of activity. that is something I didn't use to do previous to the smoking ban...