Render #22 (animation test bottom page 8)

Stinkie

I can't see what's the advantage with unbiased renderers, the difference in quality isn't noticeable enough to justify the wait.

That of course depends on your needs. I need superb quality. I find the long render times horrific - but I have no choice. If you do, by all means, choose a biased renderer.

princedragoncok

@unknownuser said:

I need superb quality. I find the long render times horrific - but I have no choice. If you do, by all means, choose a biased renderer.

Well I'm looking at this 30 min vray render here and it looks pretty superb to me, only crit is the floating leaves.
However those blender guys on the indigo forum do make a convincing argument in favour of indigo..

Stinkie

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just pointing out there in fact is quite a noticeable difference in quality. The question is: do you need the quality that unbiased rendering provides? If so, you will indeed benefit from having a very good computer. If not, Vray might indeed be the thing for you - it is a very good renderer. I've seen many very compelling Vray renders. But: the learning curve is steep. That, or I'm stupid - which might very well be the case.

In short: both options have pros and cons. There's a third option, obviously. And that's waiting til Podium V2 is released.

Repeat after me: Tavi, get off your *ss!!

princedragoncok

Well I'm a podium user myself and I love it, but it certainly has its limits and i'm beginning to have doubts about v2 - look how fast (free) indigo is moving along. V2 still won't compare to indigo in terms of functionality but it's the speed and that little extra quality that i'll be looking forward to. V2 is taking it's time though..

plot-paris

I simply love the ease of use with Indigo...

double clicking on a material to access the indigo specific settings
change of the materials appearance within SketchUp when importing
preview render for materials
use of (even textured) materials as lightsource
support of face me components

these are some features that make Indigo such a wonderfully simple, but mighty tool.

is there any (free?) biased renderer with the same fast workflow that gives you as much control as Indigo does? would be very interesting - from time to time waiting 10 hours or longer for an image to clear up is a bit unnerving

Stinkie

Shall we return this thread to it's "rightful owner"? We are getting somewhat carried away.

kwistenbiebel

I have no problem with the render engine chit-chat. Always interesting to share thoughts don't you think?
(Stinkie regrets having bought Maxwell for a 1000 euro, while Indigo does better for zip ....sorry for me having a ball. I just can't resist.)

By the way, I bought Fryrender half a year ago..so I am to pitty as much as you.
(It is not bad software though. the same goes for Maxwell......but when you compare it price wise to Indigo, ...).

Stinkie

@kwistenbiebel said:

I have no problem with the render engine chit-chat. Always interesting to share thoughts don't you think?
(Stinkie regrets having bought Maxwell for a 1000 euro, while Indigo does better for zip ....sorry for me having a ball. I just can't resist.)

By the way, I bought Fryrender half a year ago..so I am to pitty as much as you.
(It is not bad software though. the same goes for Maxwell......but when you compare it price wise to Indigo, ...).

Indigo? Better? In some respects, yes. In others, no. At least for me.

a) Maxwell references textures externally. (Or however you say that in Eengleesh.) Hence: your SU model doesn't get heavy and hard to manage due to high res textures. (And I need those.)

b) Maxwell's slightly better on picking up fine details. (Need that too.)

c) Maxwell has Multilight. (Cannot do without it.)

I simply have little choice.
I wholeheartedly agree, though, that Indigo's a truly excellent app. And SkIndigo I deeply love.

kwistenbiebel

I agree on b) and c).
Don't know about a) though.

I was only joking around as you probably know
In good hands, Maxwell can be a marvelous tool.

Whaat

@unknownuser said:

a) Maxwell references textures externally. (Or however you say that in Eengleesh.) Hence: your SU model doesn't get heavy and hard to manage due to high res textures. (And I need those.)

Next beta version of SkIndigo will have this feature.

@unknownuser said:

b) Maxwell's slightly better on picking up fine details. (Need that too.)
I disagree. Use MLT and set your MNCR value higher and you will start to see new details..

@unknownuser said:

c) Maxwell has Multilight. (Cannot do without it.)

I'll give you that one.. Hopefully, Ono will implement this feature soon.

We miss you on the Indigo forums, Stinkie! Come back to Indigo!!

kwistenbiebel

Damn, I failed the multiple choice test.
Whaat is soooooo smart.

I didn't know MLT was crisper and I never tangled before with that MNCR value . I always left it to the default 500. Must try. Thanks for the tip.

Stinkie

@kwistenbiebel said:

I was only joking around as you probably know
In good hands, Maxwell can be a marvelous tool.

I know you were. I still choose to feel insulted. You may call that my feminin side.

@whaat said:

@unknownuser said:

a) Maxwell references textures externally. (Or however you say that in Eengleesh.) Hence: your SU model doesn't get heavy and hard to manage due to high res textures. (And I need those.)

Next beta version of SkIndigo will have this feature.

Couldn't you have told me that before I spent € 1000? Seriously, that's great news!

@whaat said:

@unknownuser said:

b) Maxwell's slightly better on picking up fine details. (Need that too.)
I disagree. Use MLT and set your MNCR value higher and you will start to see new details..

Good tip, thanks!

@whaat said:

@unknownuser said:

c) Maxwell has Multilight. (Cannot do without it.)

I'll give you that one.. Hopefully, Ono will implement this feature soon.

We're all hoping the same. If he implements such a funtion, Indigo will blow Maxwell and Fry out of the water.

@whaat said:

We miss you on the Indigo forums, Stinkie! Come back to Indigo!!

lol. I still use it. Just not that frequently these days, though, as I'm learning how to use Maxwell. But I sure as hell gonna keep using it. I actually enjoy that app.

kwistenbiebel

When multilight arrives, things are going to get hot for the commercial ones.
Maxwell knows it needs to stay ahead and now is going to introduce a completely refreshed sky system.
I love it, the way competition works

Stinkie

@kwistenbiebel said:

When multilight arrives, things are going to get hot for the commercial ones.

Indeed! Oooh, I'm gonna have a lot of fun when (and if) Ono implements ML.

For now ... externally referenced texure maps. Yum ... (Grazie, Whaat.)

plot-paris

@kwistenbiebel said:

I love it, the way competition works

and Maxwell is competing with a free renderer!
I think I owe my live to you programmers who make SketchUp heaven on earth!

@unknownuser said:

Shall we return this thread to it's "rightful owner"?

kwistenbiebel, now the time is right for another stunning render of yours...

princedragoncok

I already know this is a stupid question but could indigo switch between unbiased mode and biased mode or does that involve re-writing indigo from scratch?

remus

I suppose its possible, as you can already choose between a few different rendering algorithms (Bidir MLT, MLT etc.) so id guess its jsut a case of addin a few more in, although i not sure how easy that is. Kerkythea certainly already does this, so if thats a feature your looking for certainly give it a go.

kwistenbiebel

Whaat made the exporter in a way that it should be possible.(the option to choose the render method)
But on the other hand, I don't think Ono Sendai (developer of the engine itself) will ever want to code biased algorythms as Indigo basically is meant to be an unbiased render solution.
Kerkythea has both methods, although it seems to focus more on the unbiased than on the biased with latest release.

Stinkie

... and if I'm not hallucinating, Frederik ("Kimmy") made reference somewhere to a Multilight-like feature being implemented in KT.

princedragoncok

@unknownuser said:

Whaat made the exporter in a way that it should be possible.(the option to choose the render method)
But on the other hand, I don't think Ono Sendai (developer of the engine itself) will ever want to code biased algorythms as Indigo basically is meant to be an unbiased render solution.

But you said it yourself, indigo becomes almost unusable when dealing with interiors. And someone said before that biased engines can be physically correct, the coding is just more difficult - surely they should be investing their time in writing these codes..?