Whatever happened to common sense ...
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First of all...
@unknownuser said:
Only in America...
Coen, look at Paul and stinkie's replies above. General statements like "Only in America" really piss me off and I take offense to it.
Second of all, having a young daughter who was sexually harassed on the playground almost 2 years ago, I take this one very personally. The kid in this article smacked a girl on the back side... was he old enough to know what he was doing???
The two little F&#*@#s who cornered my daughter and tried to shove their hands down her pants should have been arrested. They should have been expelled. They knew exactly what they were doing.
They did have their permanent record "updated" due to the incident. I don't know what it said however.I agree that lawyers are the cause of many pointless cases but there are the ones that should be carried out and don't that really gets me upset.
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Hi eric,
I can imagine when something, like what you described, happens in your personal athmosphere, it is fairly normal to take things seriously.
In the case of the article that Stinkie brought up, it seems though that the actions of the boy were less grave and the reaction a little out of proportion. But we don't know as we weren't there.
In general terms I would agree with the fact that the USA sometimes seems to be moralising about things like that. I have no problem with that as long as it is within the right proportions.
It would be crazy that the 'spanking kid' would have a life time criminal record (=stigma) to carry around for typical 'childish' behaviour you can witness on every playground daily.
I don't think what the brat did in the story (=hitting) should be considered a sexual offense.
There are other means of punishing brats for typical bad behaviour one can expect from some juveniles.Actual sexual harrassment off course is a different thing...
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This is not gonna make me very popular, but to hell with: I've felt up other kids when I was still a kid. Yup! In return, they felt me up. We had a blast.
Why did we do it? Out of curiosity - and partly because we knew that it was an adult, "forbidden" thing to do. I kinda liked to do what I wasn't supposed to, and so did my peers. We turned out okay.
We may not be comfortable with the thought, but kids do explore each other's bodies. It's just a part of growing up. Now, do they experience sexual excitement while touching each other or themselves? I wouldn't be surprised if they did. They ain't dolls.
This is NOT a comment on what happened to your girl, Boo.
How do I put this so that no-one gets angry? From where I'm standing, the US do seem like a, erm, eh, well ... puritan country at times.
I'm relatively certain many Europeans feel the same way. -
I don't really want to bite off more than I can chew but I know we aren't the only country that deals with things in a unusual manner! Some countries would've done a lot worse to this kid...
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Possibly. But that doesn't make the way that kid was treated okay. Calling the police because one kid slaps the other on the behind, sorry, that's hysterical by (almost) any standard.
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I guess it all comes down to how one defines the term 'sexual harrassment'.
The puberty thing Stinkie described (who's not familiar with discovery and exploring?) is consentual (is this the correct English word ?) and in my little world unharmful.I think we will all agree that when it is not consentual there is a problem.
The way to react to that and to which extent is a cultural thing.
Some cultures would take the matter out in the open (legal action etc...), and some would try to fix things more discretely by not crying Wolf over nothing.There is no culture better than another, but I am glad to be part of a culture that takes action based on 'common sense' in the less damaging way possible for all parties .
I must admit though that even Belgium is loosing some of that common sense lately. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
I think we will all agree that when it is not consentual there is a problem.
I agree.
@kwistenbiebel said:
There is no culture better than another, but I am glad to be part of a culture that takes action based on 'common sense' in the less damaging way possible for all parties .
(...) Damn, what happened to the 'loose' seventies and eighties athmosphere
Oi, don't forget the nineties! Consensus was met many times during that decade!
Seriously, though, the world seems to have become a somewhat thougher place. People seem to be less ... forgiving, these days.@kwistenbiebel said:
I must admit though that even Belgium is loosing some of that common sense lately.
Are you referring to the "Fenomenale Feminatheek" thing?
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Kwist, i find it hard to believe that a kid of 6 will be deliberately harassing someone in a sexual manner, I mean they're 6 for god's sake!
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@remus said:
Kwist, i find it hard to believe that a kid of 6 will be deliberately harassing someone in a sexual manner, I mean they're 6 for god's sake!
I share your opinion. Kids are kids.
(Unless we're talking the rare occasion of a mentally ill kid trying to copy grown up behaviour in a violent way, but we have good hospitals for those(I hope)as they need help) -
@unknownuser said:
@kwistenbiebel said:
I must admit though that even Belgium is loosing some of that common sense lately.
Are you referring to the "Fenomenale Feminatheek" thing?
Yes, among other things.
(note: 'The fenomenal Feminateek' is a vintage erotic image collection of a famous Belgian surrealistic writer (Louis Paul Boon). The display of these images was forbidden by local community.)One of the major things that makes me decide we're losing some common sense is the way that politicians make new laws that already were covered by the constitutional rights.
For instance, Belgium voted a law against 'racist talk' (prison sentences etc..) while the constitution already described 'freedom of speech' to the extent people aren't damaged (in Dutch called 'smaad'.)
It's a case of politics trying to gain more control over people and install a system based on fear to keep them calm and let them walk the straight line. -
Fear? Come on, hombre! You're not telling me you think anyone's afraid of our government, are you!?
As for the "anti racism law", that's just an update of the laws we already had. Useful in some cases, too. We shouldn't go overboard with this kind of thing, though. Take the "anti revisionism law" (it's illegal in Belgium to deny the existence of death camps during WW2). An abomination, I feel. I deplore revisionists, but they should be able to speak their minds. Of course, I won't protest if they get punched in the stomach while doing so.
The Feminatheek thing was ... ridiculous. The fifties are back! Be sure to go to church next sunday, Kwisten! Bigotry ... yuck.
(Oh: Boon was not a surrealist.)
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I saw that reply before you removed it, Kwisten. Van Ostaijen ...
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Exactly...I got those two mixed up for a minute.
Louis Paul Boon was the guy of 'Kapellekesbaan' right? (romantic, rural writer)(sorry, way off-topic)
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Yeah. Not "rural", but close enough. We deviated a tad, indeed.
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Anyway,
'Fear' maybe was too big of a word to describe what I meant.
You can't ignore though that less is allowed. More rules, more control.
What was once regulated by common sense and old traditions ( old Catholic principles are wearing of in this part of Europe) now seems to be overtaken by law making.
Politics to control peoples conscience.
That's slowly heading back to the eigtheen hundreds in my opinion.... -
Yes, I agree with Alan about some of the very low life Solicitors /
Lawyers that are willing to stoop to any depths in order to make a
living. The TV and Yellow Pages advertising bunch are also here in
this country and the UK.One of the reasons for their success is because they are allowed to
work on a 'One Foal No Fee' basis. I can understand that an injured
party may not always have the funds to take a case and the No Foal
No Fee system is acceptable here.But the onus should be on the solicitor / lawyer to use good judgement
before taking on such a case. This has not been the situation over
the past number of years in this country. Until recently the defending
party had to pay their own costs after successfully defending a case
brought against them as its not possible to get money out of a plaintiff
with no assets!Last year there were moves to change the law here in Ireland and make
the plaintiffs solicitor liable for the defendants costs should the
case be proven to be fraudulent. I think something along these lines has
been brought in but not sure exactly what. However we are seeing far
fewer fraudulent claims these days ! -
I've gone off topic sort of in my last post.
I can remember back when I was a little lad going to school.
If we stepped out of line we got 'six of the best' across the
bum with a leather or cain. I really believe it did no long
lasting harm and put us on the straight and narrow. It was
over and done with in a few minutes and life moved on. The
lesson was remember as it was associated with some PAIN!These days corporal punishment is a big No No. I think this
is mistake. I can understand this attitude in Europe as we
have abolished capital punishment years ago but in much of
the USA it still stands. I believe Texas still has the death
sentence for certain crimes but teachers are not allowed to
chastise students with the cain. This simply does not make
sense to me.I would go as far to say its natural for a parent (teachers
undertake the parents role in school) to physically chastise
its offspring. Just look at a bitch feeding her litter. If one
of the pups is misbehaving he gets a sharp rebuff that puts
some manners into him. It works and is natural! Why should
humans be any different?
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