Switching from Mac to PC...

Tim M

Thanks Norbert, I’ll check this out too. It appears the nVidia cards are preferred by the SU community.
Tim

the OpenGL support of PC based 3D graphics accelerators is, because of the long experience the manufacturers do have with this platform, more mature and stable than on the Macitnosh side. Therefore OpenGL based issues regularly mentioned in connection w/ OSX driven systems are much less occuring especially in connection with the nVidia Quadro CAx series of video cards.

If you can afford it, the e.g. Dell Precision workstation notebooks with a Quadro GPU are probably the best choice for running SU on a mobile system yet. Because single core speed is more relevant for SU than multiple but currently unused cores (by SU), focusing on the fastest dual core is recommendable.

hth,
Norbert

Mike Lucey

Hi Tim,

I'm not sure what you are doing but I run both versions of SU
on my MacBookPro. The Win version is run via Parallels 3.

The reason for using the Win version on Parallels 3 is because
I'm using Podium. It's not the quickest but does the job.

When I switched to the Mac and started to get to grips with Mac
SU it took a little while to get used to some of the key stokes.
But again I was also getting used to the Mac way of things at
the same time.

I think your learning curve will be with the PC Win more that
SketchUp itself!

If you are going for a Win Laptop I agree that Dell is a good
bet as their backup (in my experience) is quite good. But again
I can't understand why you are taking this route

Mike

Tim M

Mike,

I would prefer to stay with the Mac but I need a contingency plan in case the finances don’t allow a new one. I know a PC is in the budget. I’m crossing my fingers.

Tim

@mike lucey said:

Hi Tim,

I'm not sure what you are doing but I run both versions of SU
on my MacBookPro. The Win version is run via Parallels 3.

The reason for using the Win version on Parallels 3 is because
I'm using Podium. It's not the quickest but does the job.

When I switched to the Mac and started to get to grips with Mac
SU it took a little while to get used to some of the key stokes.
But again I was also getting used to the Mac way of things at
the same time.

I think your learning curve will be with the PC Win more that
SketchUp itself!

If you are going for a Win Laptop I agree that Dell is a good
bet as their backup (in my experience) is quite good. But again
I can't understand why you are taking this route

Mike

kmead

Be sure and compare the same specs on the PC as on the Mac, the Macs are much more cost competitive than you might think. The biggest issue I have with Macs is that they don't have a mid line box with an upgradeable video card available at the moment. I am toddering on with my 7 year old Mac tower which has been doing surprisingly well. My MacBook Pro is more than adequate and can go where I go.

If they offered a midline tower with an upgradeable graphics card, I would drop my 1800 tomorrow to buy it.

I don't often see graphics glitches on any mac, I see more on my bosses MSW box but so it goes.

Keep in mind that buying the memory after market is much better than buying it from Apple (or Dell for that matter) cost wise.

Tim M

Currently I have a G4 450 MHz running on OS 9. It has been and still is an excellent machine. I have had it for 8 plus years. Of course I can't run SU on it unless I upgrade to OS 10. One of our IT guys at the office advised against it saying I would be better off in the long run with a new computer. What I don't know is if OS 10 would work on my current computer or not. Is anyone running SU on a computer like this? Maybe there is hope in an upgrade.

I will compare both platforms. Thanks for the advice.
Tim

@kmead said:

Be sure and compare the same specs on the PC as on the Mac, the Macs are much more cost competitive than you might think. The biggest issue I have with Macs is that they don't have a mid line box with an upgradeable video card available at the moment. I am toddering on with my 7 year old Mac tower which has been doing surprisingly well. My MacBook Pro is more than adequate and can go where I go.

If they offered a midline tower with an upgradeable graphics card, I would drop my 1800 tomorrow to buy it.

I don't often see graphics glitches on any mac, I see more on my bosses MSW box but so it goes.

Keep in mind that buying the memory after market is much better than buying it from Apple (or Dell for that matter) cost wise.

Glenn at home

[quote="Tim M"]Currently I have a G4 450 MHz running on OS 9. It has been and still is an excellent machine. I have had it for 8 plus years. Of course I can't run SU on it unless I upgrade to OS 10. One of our IT guys at the office advised against it saying I would be better off in the long run with a new computer. What I don't know is if OS 10 would work on my current computer or not. Is anyone running SU on a computer like this? Maybe there is hope in an upgrade.

I will compare both platforms. Thanks for the advice.
Tim

I'd have to agree with him. What is the ram in a G4 450, PC-100? Does this one even have an AGP video card? Sure OSX will run on it but why do it?
Looking at http://www.everymac.com I see that these could have a 2X AGP slot and they did have a 100mhz system bus speed. Looks like a mini would be a faster machine that these in OSX. I got rid of my old PowerMac6500 for this reason. Not worth the upgrade headaches

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_450.html

Tim M

Glenn,

I can’t remember the exact specs on my G4 but I do remember I maxed out the RAM a few years ago. His concern was the same as your’s it probably isn’t worth the headaches. Oh well, I’d rather know this than attempt a futile upgrade.

Thanks

@unknownuser said:

I'd have to agree with him. What is the ram in a G4 450, PC-100? Does this one even have an AGP video card? Sure OSX will run on it but why do it?
Looking at http://www.everymac.com I see that these could have a 2X AGP slot and they did have a 100mhz system bus speed. Looks like a mini would be a faster machine that these in OSX. I got rid of my old PowerMac6500 for this reason. Not worth the upgrade headaches

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_450.html

caronte01

Tim

I recently moved from a pc to a mac. As someone else pointed before, considering specs, macs are competitive, when compared to a similarly spec´ed peecee.

I work on a macbook, which i upgraded to 2 GB of ram, and find sketchup performance adequate, even with integrated graphics. Take into consideration the fact that a lot of stuff you see on your screen on OSX is opengl accelerated, so apple makes sure performance is ok. I work with hardware acceleration on, and there are no visible glitches (something you more than likely would have on a pecee with integrated graphics), and speed is ok on small and medium to large models. In this case, it´s not just a matter of raw speed, but also good drivers, and the mac certainly does have good ones.

I guess it all depends on the kind and size of models you do. I would be more than happy to have a macbook pro though, but it was out of my budget.

I also use a late gen imac, with ati graphics, and performance is very good, but, strangely i get more graphic glitches than on the macbook. Nothing terrible though.

Certain plugins do work only on peecee, but you have several option on a mac to run windows for those, if you need to.

Your computer is imo too old to run sketchup properly though.

It´s up to you in the end, but if it was my call, i would stick with osx. Not pretending to turn this into a flame war, but if you are used to mac, the switch will be full of surprises, and not all of them will be good.

The peecee has more variety, software wise, i agree, but most freeware, shareware, low cost programs on a mac are imo of a higher quality than equivalents on peecee.

Tim M

All excellent points and will make for good ammunition, I mean talking points, when I present my findings to my financial advisor/my wife.
Thanks

@caronte01 said:

Tim

I recently moved from a pc to a mac. As someone else pointed before, considering specs, macs are competitive, when compared to a similarly spec´ed peecee.

I work on a macbook, which i upgraded to 2 GB of ram, and find sketchup performance adequate, even with integrated graphics. Take into consideration the fact that a lot of stuff you see on your screen on OSX is opengl accelerated, so apple makes sure performance is ok. I work with hardware acceleration on, and there are no visible glitches (something you more than likely would have on a pecee with integrated graphics), and speed is ok on small and medium to large models. In this case, it´s not just a matter of raw speed, but also good drivers, and the mac certainly does have good ones.

I guess it all depends on the kind and size of models you do. I would be more than happy to have a macbook pro though, but it was out of my budget.

I also use a late gen imac, with ati graphics, and performance is very good, but, strangely i get more graphic glitches than on the macbook. Nothing terrible though.

Certain plugins do work only on peecee, but you have several option on a mac to run windows for those, if you need to.

Your computer is imo too old to run sketchup properly though.

It´s up to you in the end, but if it was my call, i would stick with osx. Not pretending to turn this into a flame war, but if you are used to mac, the switch will be full of surprises, and not all of them will be good.

The peecee has more variety, software wise, i agree, but most freeware, shareware, low cost programs on a mac are imo of a higher quality than equivalents on peecee.

Mike Lucey

Tim,

Have you thought about building a HackIntosh, could be fun!
Check out, Build a Hackintosh Mac for Under $800 at,
http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800-321913.php

They measure up quite well against MacBook Pros. Not too
sure how kosher this is but I can't see anything wrong with
it as once Apple moved to Intel they opened the gates for
DIY. You still have to buy Leopard though. Mmmmm I wonder
does Leopard have a clause with regard to it use ... no
doubt it has, must look!

Mike

juju

at caronte01: peecee - dunno what that is...

You probably meant a PC, the abbreviation for Personal Computer.

Anyhows, just thought I'd toss in my 10c. Always entertaining to hear people explain why they are Apple / PC fans.

Tim M

I haven’t heard of that before but I will check it out.
Thanks

@mike lucey said:

Tim,

Have you thought about building a HackIntosh, could be fun!
Check out, Build a Hackintosh Mac for Under $800 at,
http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800-321913.php

They measure up quite well against MacBook Pros. Not too
sure how kosher this is but I can't see anything wrong with
it as once Apple moved to Intel they opened the gates for
DIY. You still have to buy Leopard though. Mmmmm I wonder
does Leopard have a clause with regard to it use ... no
doubt it has, must look!

Mike

remus

Mike, there is definetly a clause in the OS X terms of use that says you cant install it on non apple hardware, doesnt stop people form trying though

solo

Remus, You are correct it's states that in the EULA.

However your OS setup is interesting, you run Vista with a Mac emulator? or is it just 'Window blinds' or themes?

Tim M

Too bad, I had memories of my old Heath Kit days in 4-H. Could have been interesting.

@remus said:

Mike, there is definetly a clause in the OS X terms of use that says you cant install it on non apple hardware, doesnt stop people form trying though

remus

its a program called objectdock.

It lets you have a mac type dock on a windows machine. I just prefer it to the normal windows startbar sa its more suited to how i work.

Mike Lucey

ObjectDock is nice to use. I had it on-screen with my Win
machines.

Mike

bigstick

I'm pleased to hear Mike uses a 'Hackintosh'. There is a lot of information on the internet, but this sort of thing needs a lot more publicity IMO. There are also reports on the net that someone is running the tiny new Asus eee-pc with OS X.

There is no doubt that Mac hardware is way more expensive than PC hardware. I am aware of the arguments that Mac hardware is often of a higher specification, but fundamentally it is way overpriced, and even the most devoted Apple advocate would be hard pressed to argue against this. I bought a MacBook Pro, and it cost 30-50% more than an equivalent Windows laptop of similar capability. However it is so much better-designed and nicer to use. From the backlit keyboard, slot-loading DVD writer and tiny PSU with its magsafe connector, to its battery life, compact size and light weight. The Mac Pro machines don't seem to have this same detail design superiority, so I wouldn't have any hesitation at all in using PC hardware for a desktop machine. In fact with one of the excellent Silverstone cases (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=ml02&area=usa) and a Micro ATX board with a Core 2 quad CPU, your system won't lose much in terms of style either.

It is true that Apple's licensing forbids installation on non-Apple hardware, but seriously, if you have legally purchased some software, who is to say how you can use it? You are not violating any genuine moral principles (like stealing for example) just taking issue with the wording of the agreement. It is arguable as to whether you are harming Apple's interests in running Leopard on PC hardware, because although they are suffering by not selling the hardware, they are benefitting by selling their software, and from an increased user base.

So in short, when I repair my spare PC, it will be running OS X Leopard.

Mike Lucey

Hi BigStick,

I don't use a HackMac. I was just mentioning the article that
I read on the subject.

As I understand it, Mac OX is not to be used on anything other
than Apple hardware as per the Conditions of Use.

I completly understand your thinking on the subject. Apple
ALSO switched! They moved to Intel chips. I imagine one of
the reasons for doing this was to bring in the fence sitters,
I was one.

They seriously cannot expect people that cannot afford to spend
the extra 30 - 50% on an original Mac to stay away from Mac OSX!

IMO, technically there would be no theft involved but again
Terms of Conditions / Use are there! I fail to see how they
can do anything about it except maybe in the auto updates area.

If Apple opened the doors back in the '80s we might all be using
Macs or Mac Compatibles now ..... maybe

Mike