Layout - Tiff in poor quality

Jorgensen · 11 Apr 2008, 09:52

Hi

I have drawn a floorplan in sketchup. And added the old original handdrawing under underneath. The handdrawing looks ok, in Sketchup (I think I used the REG Fix some time ago).

But when I import into Layout, the Tiff gomes in, in a very poor quality. Is it possible to get a better quality ?

I have tried to set the page DPI to 300, but it has no effect

If I print direct from Sketchup the TIFF does not get on the print.

Does anyone have a solution to how I can get the drawing out, in a good quality ?

Thanks
Jorgensen

...LO has a long way to got......

jhauswirth · 11 Apr 2008, 15:41

You can try this-
Put the tiff in SU on a layer. Then create a scene with that layer turned off. Then in LO insert the tiff (sounds like you're on a Mac?). LO will not downsample the image like SU does.

bjanzen · 11 Apr 2008, 16:53

As Jeff asked, are you Mac or PC, and if Mac, Leopard or Tiger?

Barry

bjanzen · 11 Apr 2008, 17:30

Ah - sorry, should have looked at the profile on the left: Vista 64. Is that correct?

Jorgensen · 11 Apr 2008, 20:05

Yes, Vista 64

Jorgensen · 12 Apr 2008, 08:17

Anyone please. I really need to get this done.

I need to be able to export/print an PDF with a Sketchup drawing, and a scanned handdrawing, in good quality, underneath.

Thanks
Jorgensen

Jorgensen · 12 Apr 2008, 09:20

Ok, it seems that the solution with inserting the image direct into LO can be used.

I hope that there will be a better solution in the next version - or even better, Layout becomes build into Sketchup

juju · 12 Apr 2008, 10:39

@jorgensen said:

Ok, it seems that the solution with inserting the image direct into LO can be used.

I hope that there will be a better solution in the next version - or even better, Layout becomes build into Sketchup

Personally, I don't mind SU and LO being separate apps, else SU might just get too "clunky".

If only LO didn't make a copy of the SU model used for each and every page created. I know it makes sense when you have a number of different models in there, but not when you have the same model throughout.

Jorgensen · 12 Apr 2008, 13:48

Yes, LO is extremly slow

What I would like is, to be able to make 'paper spaces' inside Sketchup - like one can do in AutoCad.

bjanzen · 14 Apr 2008, 18:03

@unknownuser said:

What I would like is, to be able to make 'paper spaces' inside Sketchup - like one can do in AutoCad.

LayOut is not a competitor to AutoCAD. We have not communicated this well. LayOut "IS" paper space - it's for printing and presentation. SketchUp is still the drawing tool for your model. Except now you model in 3D, not 2D, and use LayOut for paper space in 2D.

@unknownuser said:

If only LO didn't make a copy of the SU model used for each and every page created. I know it makes sense when you have a number of different models in there, but not when you have the same model throughout.

LayOut does not make multiple copies. If you have multiple copies in File->Document Setup->References, then there is something wrong. It does take a snapshot (png) of your model for 2D space, so if you have large paper size, your document will grow in size, but NOT because of multiple skp copies.

Does that make sense, or does it create questions?

Barry

juju · 14 Apr 2008, 18:17

Well then I don't understand why a LO document with 11 pages (one image per page - A3 document) based on a SU model of 13.4MB would turn out to be 185MB. That is pretty rediculous.

There is only the one model listed in the window where you specify the model to link.

Anssi · 14 Apr 2008, 18:56

@unknownuser said:

Well then I don't understand why a LO document with 11 pages (one image per page - A3 document) based on a SU model of 13.4MB would turn out to be 185MB. That is pretty rediculous.

There is only the one model listed in the window where you specify the model to link.

Juju,

I think this quote from Barry pretty well explains what is happening:

@bjanzen said:

It does take a snapshot (png) of your model for 2D space, so if you have large paper size, your document will grow in size,

PNG is a lossless image format quite similar to TIFF, so it will easily take quite a lot more disk space than the actual SU model. And if the "snapshot" is taken of an A3 sized model "window" at 300 pixels/inch it would be quite huge (about 17 million pixels) Uncompressed that is about 50 megabytes of RGB colour. PNG uses a lossless compression method, so the result of about 15MB per image is rather to be expected. I tried saving a photograph (enlarging it) at the same resolution from Photoshop, and got an about 12 MB file.

I guess the alternative would be to regenerate the model windows every time you turn a page or otherwise change the view, and that might be even slower than the present method.

I agree that something ought to be done about this. I always fall into comparison with the old workhorse PageMaker and its speed.

Anssi

bjanzen · 14 Apr 2008, 20:15

Thanks, Anssi - that's correct. We get this a lot, where we want to make this as easy as possible for you, but if you don't have experience in large format printing, this can be confusing.

Follow this, and you'll know why:

I took a well-known test model, called "CornerBar.skp" (5.6 MB) and sent to LayOut on A3 paper, and made it full paper size. Doc size is about 6.8 MB
Now duplicate the page, so that my doc is 11 pages. Doc size is about 43.7 MB

Now, rename YourFile.layout to YourFile.zip and unzip it. Look at the "ref" directory in that unzipped section, and you'll see 11 png's. In my case, they're each 3.7 MB. These are the 2D snapshots of your 3D model. 11 x 3.7 = 40.7 MB.

These are zipped up, but since png's are compressed, there wont be that much change (see http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngintro.html for more on png). Why 11 different png's for 11 pages? Well, most users will manipulate each of these pages. If you weren't going to do that, you would have inserted a png image that you could have exported in SketchUp.

If you're done editing your 11 page document and what you want is 11 pages of exactly the same image (this is nonsense of course, because you'd likely have 11 different camera angles or scenes, so this is done ONLY as an exercise to make a point), do this:

Delete all pages and delete the model reference, and insert one of the png images in your unzipped ref directory. Now duplicate that page 11 times and save. Doc size is about 3.7 MB !!

I have an 11 page document that looks exactly the same, and is now 1/10th the size. HOWEVER, I have no flexibility in changing scenes or styles or camera angles or anything.

So, this fun little exercise shows that in exchange for fast easy edits, you pay for it in disk and memory size. These are engineering trade-offs we'll continue to optimize and try to communicate better to LayOut users. Keep the feedback and experiences coming, and thanks for using LayOut.

Barry

bjanzen · 14 Apr 2008, 23:31

Hey, Jorgensen - just to be complete, I ran SketchUp and LayOut on a Vista 64 system. There's nothing different there than other OS's, and if you look at SketchUp Help and search on "Image Resolution", you'll find:

...the resolution of Image Objects is limited to the largest texture that OpenGL can handle. For most systems this limit is 1024 x 1024 pixels. This should be sufficient for most purposes, but if higher resolution is required, you can always stitch together multiple Image Objects.

So you did the right thing (glad you found the better way) and sorry I didn't help quicker with your original question.

Barry

Jorgensen · 27 Apr 2008, 08:41

Hi everyone

Thanks for your input.

It seems to me, that LO has to many bugs / to slow / to hassle...

So I'm back using Indesign, but I will keep an eye on LO

Thanks
Jorgensen