Ukraine
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Absolutely 100% chilling
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I had to post this, look at how isolated and destained he is
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From what I have read about the situation in Ukraine, both the build up from 1990 and what we now have, I feel no one should really be surprised about what is happening currently.
It seems that The West needs an enemy, if for no other reason than to justify the huge military budgets and the Military Industrial Complex. Now Germany has jointed this complex with 2% of their very considerable GNP. The figure will run to €100,000,000,000 plus!
As for the Russian Federation, they are stuck with a man that feels cornered. He is acting the way I expected considering his KGB training. Doesn't every person with basic common sense know that if you corner a dangerous animal, it will launch a vicious attack against the perceived threat.
It seems Russia asked to join both the EU and NATO at various times and each time they were laughed at. If Russia did join the EU and NATO it would beg the question, Why is NATO needed? Oh! I was forgetting about China! However the Chinese will continue playing the long game and from the looks of it they are making a good job of it.
The UN Security Council were not able to pass a resolution condemning the Ukraine invasion by the RF as the RF member vetoed the vote! What is the point of the UN these days? It seriously needs to be reconstructed and definitely relocated to a neutral country!
As regards neutral countries goes, it looks like they are going to be rarer than hen's teeth. There is talk about Sweden joining NATO and my little country, Ireland, now has its Minister for Foreign Affairs declaring that we are no longer a neutral country! I suppose Switzerland would be a save bet. A neutral country is the best place to host peace talks!
How this will end! While no one can be sure, it will probably go on for some time as its going to be a great money spinner for the Military Industrial Complex or the stranded / set up Ukrainian President will throw in the towel to save the country's children from further bloodshed. I hope it's the latter.
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I know this can be seen as a cheap shot but I voted leave in the brexit vote because I knew this would happen. I also pointed this out to the then eu president but was shot down.
The paranoia exhibited by Putin and the ruling clique has been the driver and the eu moving eastwards their cause celeb, they were always going to resist violently at some point and Ukraine was always going to bear the brunt. Their is too much in the way history for those who desire a return to the Soviet Union.
With the freedoms Ukrainians have had since the breakup of the USSR they have found their feet and grown stronger identity and nationality wise so they are not going to surrender while there is any chance of an enforced halt on the Russians.
Will Putin push the nuclear button? Possibly the tactical weapons, the more resistance the more tempting use of tactical weapons will become. Putin must prove himself a credible leader or go down the same route as Caesar did with a coup from within his own group of oligarchs/political affiliates who have much to lose personally. This could well be the end of Russia as any kind of influencer on the world stage and THEN the PRC will be in to Siberia like rats up a drain pipe, they will state their aims are humanitarian but we all know they are resources and space for their nationals and national growth.
Ukraine is only part of the mess, what with growing unrest among Russian citizens and protests on the streets Putins credibility in his own country is already waning fast.
The usual villains and the usual victims remain the same. The cost will be through the roof not just in the affected region but around the world. If it were not for the self agrandising and money grabbing individuals around the world we could have a more peaceful and harmonious world but that is as likely as. We COULD have a situation where the bigger nations collaborate to safeguard the smaller and more vulnerable states but it seems we are not ready for that yet. Ukraine are already doubting NATO membership which is turning towards Russian demands but not likely to disarm themselves.
What a bloody stupid and crass situation to be in.
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@mike lucey said:
From what I have read about the situation in Ukraine, both the build up from 1990 and what we now have, I feel no one should really be surprised about what is happening currently.
It seems that The West needs an enemy, if for no other reason than to justify the huge military budgets and the Military Industrial Complex. Now Germany has jointed this complex with 2% of their very considerable GNP. The figure will run to €100,000,000,000 plus!
As for the Russian Federation, they are stuck with a man that feels cornered. He is acting the way I expected considering his KGB training. Doesn't every person with basic common sense know that if you corner a dangerous animal, it will launch a vicious attack against the perceived threat.
It seems Russia asked to join both the EU and NATO at various times and each time they were laughed at....
russia has never sought NATO and the EU. A country that has not found its identity in any way. Whether to go to Asia or Europe.
You live very far from russian propaganda and you don’t know much.You did not live in the soviet union, and you do not know much. -
@alvis said:
@mike lucey said:
From what I have read about the situation in Ukraine, both the build up from 1990 and what we now have, I feel no one should really be surprised about what is happening currently.
It seems that The West needs an enemy, if for no other reason than to justify the huge military budgets and the Military Industrial Complex. Now Germany has jointed this complex with 2% of their very considerable GNP. The figure will run to €100,000,000,000 plus!
As for the Russian Federation, they are stuck with a man that feels cornered. He is acting the way I expected considering his KGB training. Doesn't every person with basic common sense know that if you corner a dangerous animal, it will launch a vicious attack against the perceived threat.
It seems Russia asked to join both the EU and NATO at various times and each time they were laughed at....
russia has never sought NATO and the EU. A country that has not found its identity in any way. Whether to go to Asia or Europe.
You live very far from russian propaganda and you don’t know much.You did not live in the soviet union, and you do not know much.Hi alvis,
I fully appreciate that you probably know a lot more about living under a communist regime than I, you being from Lithuania.
However, I have learned quite a bit about the current Ukrainian situation from research, mostly online but also from talking to friends now living here in Ireland that have come from countries that were under the USSR yoke.
I suggest you check out this article,
'Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule'
The Guardian article is very credible with facts that appear to back it up. Also the mentioned David Frost interview with Putin carries a lot of weigh.
The interview in question,'BBC BREAKFAST WITH FROST INTERVIEW: VLADIMIR PUTIN MARCH 5TH, 2000' transcript may be found here, http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/audio_video/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/transcripts/putin5.mar.txt
The relevant excerpt reads,
DAVID FROST:
Is it possible Russia could join NATO?PUTIN:
I don't see why not. I would not rule out such a possibility - but I repeat - if and
when Russia's views are taken into account as those of an equal partner. I
want to stress this again and again. The situation that was laid down in the
founding principles of the United Nations - that was the situation that obtained
in the world at the end of World War Two. All right, the situation may have
changed. Let's assume there is a desire on the part of those who perceive the
change to install new mechanisms of ensuring international security. But
pretending - or proceeding from the assumption - that Russia has nothing to
do with it and trying to exclude it from this process is hardly feasible. And
when we talk about our opposition to NATO's expansion - mind you, we have
never ever declared any region of the world a zone of our special interests, I
prefer to talk about strategic partnership. Its attempts to exclude us from the
process is what causes opposition and concern on our part. But that does not
mean we are going to shut ourselves off from the rest of the world.
Isolationism is not an option.As mentioned in my previous post, Ireland is a neutral country and I stand by this status as its neutrality is part of our constitution and cannot be changed without first a referendum allowing the change. There are always two sides to every conflict, maybe not equal in credibility but nevertheless each side should get an equal hearing. If this is not to be the case there will be little if no possibility of an equitable solution...... ever!
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I found a channel called "1420" which I am guessing actually is code for "2014" which was the year Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula
I found it very telling of what young Russian people think of the "special operations" in Ukraine. Please have a look these people are so sophisticated and bright. There is hope. Please watch and share -
Thanks for posting the 1420 link. It's rarely that we get to hear the opinions of what looks to be ordinary Russian people.
Although some of the people were very forthcoming in their responses to the questions a good few of them seemed to be very cautious. One guy must have insisted on having his image blanked out and possibly his voice altered.
It's sad that ordinary people may feel that they are not able to voice their real believes. And I'm not only talking about Russian people. The same thing is now happening in the West!
Over the past week I have read/watched/listened to how the present RF has evolved since the break up of the USSR. It looks to me that ordinary Russians may well be realising that they are living under an autocratic regime with just a very thin dressing of democracy. A number of the interviewees hinted at this and one even suggested that there could be calls for change shortly ..... to put it mildly. I hope this happens.
While democracy in the West leaves a lot to be desired, we can at least kick out governments every 4 years or so.
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@mike lucey said:
Thanks for posting the 1420 link. It's rarely that we get to hear the opinions of what looks to be ordinary Russian people.
Although some of the people were very forthcoming in their responses to the questions a good few of them seemed to be very cautious. One guy must have insisted on having his image blanked out and possibly his voice altered.
It's sad that ordinary people may feel that they are not able to voice their real believes. And I'm not only talking about Russian people. The same thing is now happening in the West!
Over the past week I have read/watched/listened to how the present RF has evolved since the break up of the USSR. It looks to me that ordinary Russians may well be realising that they are living under an autocratic regime with just a very thin dressing of democracy. A number of the interviewees hinted at this and one even suggested that there could be calls for change shortly ..... to put it mildly. I hope this happens.
While democracy in the West leaves a lot to be desired, we can at least kick out governments every 4 years or so.
I concur with all your points Mike. Did you watch all the 1420 videos or more than the one link I posted? Such impressive young people, they in the very vast majority are fully aware of the real situation.
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@l i am said:
I concur with all your points Mike. Did you watch all the 1420 videos or more than the one link I posted? Such impressive young people, they in the very vast majority are fully aware of the real situation.
Yes Liam, I did follow through and watch/listen to a number of other 1420 video interviews. One such asked the question, 'Should the RF bomb the USA?'or words to that effect. I was encouraged to to see that the vast majority thought is was a terrible idea also they staunchly disagreed with what is happening in Ukraine.
We have an economist over here called, David McWilliams, that writes a weekly blog. I am a fan of David's clear thinking! His latest piece is,
'To learn how Russia got to this point, follow the money'
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Liam, Here is a Chinese site similar to 1420. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2-_WWPT_124iN6jiym4fOw
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Hi guys, i posted about my Russian friend and his attitude to the "special military operations" and his sensitivity to the Ukraine war. He is a Muscovite and can see the Kremlin from his apartment. His mother had her nails done
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The latest news is that Zelensky is calling for direct talks with Putin. Hopefully this will take place soon and an agreement is trashed out.
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@alvis said:
@mike lucey said:
From what I have read about the situation in Ukraine, both the build up from 1990 and what we now have, I feel no one should really be surprised about what is happening currently.
It seems that The West needs an enemy, if for no other reason than to justify the huge military budgets and the Military Industrial Complex. Now Germany has jointed this complex with 2% of their very considerable GNP. The figure will run to €100,000,000,000 plus!
As for the Russian Federation, they are stuck with a man that feels cornered. He is acting the way I expected considering his KGB training. Doesn't every person with basic common sense know that if you corner a dangerous animal, it will launch a vicious attack against the perceived threat.
It seems Russia asked to join both the EU and NATO at various times and each time they were laughed at....
russia has never sought NATO and the EU. A country that has not found its identity in any way. Whether to go to Asia or Europe.
You live very far from russian propaganda and you don’t know much.You did not live in the soviet union, and you do not know much.In the early 1990's it was Russia's long term plan to join NATO
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It's almost heresy but what is needed is for Putin and his fellow monsters to be remove by the Russian Duma and put on trial for their war crimes.
Why should Ukraine give concessions to anyone? They are a peaceful sovereign state.
The very fact that Russian citizens are willing to be arrested demonstrates the readiness for many Russians to accept regime change. I have said it before but what about removing NATO? In it's place have a grouping of ALL the largest and better off nations to protect the smaller and less well off nations?
The un is completely bloody worthless and consists of a group of old eejits talking the talk but knowing they will never have to do anything. One nation with a veto ruins any vote, how on earth can a nation that is breaking the code have a right to vote at all?
I have asked the office of the secretary general and as usual, no reply.
In the meantime decent people die, kids die an hundreds and thousands, of thirst and hunger. In the 21st century ffs.
Politicians, talk and nothing more, time for real change.
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@mike amos said:
It's almost heresy but what is needed is for Putin and his fellow monsters to be remove by the Russian Duma and put on trial for their war crimes.
Why should Ukraine give concessions to anyone? They are a peaceful sovereign state.
The very fact that Russian citizens are willing to be arrested demonstrates the readiness for many Russians to accept regime change. I have said it before but what about removing NATO? In it's place have a grouping of ALL the largest and better off nations to protect the smaller and less well off nations?
The un is completely bloody worthless and consists of a group of old eejits talking the talk but knowing they will never have to do anything. One nation with a veto ruins any vote, how on earth can a nation that is breaking the code have a right to vote at all?
I have asked the office of the secretary general and as usual, no reply.
In the meantime decent people die, kids die an hundreds and thousands, of thirst and hunger. In the 21st century ffs.
Politicians, talk and nothing more, time for real change.
What is not well known is that a friend of mine in Moscow received what could only be described as a marketing questionnaire from a female Caller with 25 questions being:
What do you think of Poo tin?
What do you make of the "special operations" in Ukraine?.
Do you feel proud of the action?
Do you think we need a change of Government?Blah blah blah
I thought it was interesting, they are obviously trying to gauge the mood/sentiment of the people
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With a bit of luck he will trip over his bottom lip and break his own neck. With or without assistance.
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Check this out
***"Putin was baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church as a boy, which wasn't all that common back in the Soviet era. His father, who worked for the NKVD (the predecessor of the KGB), was an atheist, but his mother was a devoted Christian and raised Vladimir in the faith.Putin himself has said that he became a practicing Orthodox Christian in 1993, when he was 41 years old. He openly supports the church, even using the instruments of government to promote it. You can find plenty of photos on the Internet of Putin attending church services, including one on this thread.
In light of the fact that he's clearly a practicing Christian and self-identifies as one, we regard him as a Christian. The extent to which his beliefs are sincere is something that only Vladimir Putin knows, just the same as anyone else who professes faith in a higher power"***
Source "quora" but I have cross checked but other quates were too long...............................................and here we go
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Mike is correct in his assessment that the west failed the people of Russia and the USSR collapse caused the deaths of many people both through direct and indirect means. I am talking of people dying through hunger and malnutrition
The military were not being paid and soviet era nuclear submarines and weapons were simply dumped on beaches and in deep water north of their coast, i9n some areas within the protected zone.
Aircrew were taking aircraft and spares and just leaving. Most of the charity deliveries to Africa especially but across the world, were delivered by aircraft being flown by crews who had not been discharged from military service but abandoned. We COULD have done a lot to help given we were cutting our military costs by orders of magnitude. The British army reduced tank regiments by half in a very short space of time.
Let's be open and honest here, people in leadership positions over decades made decisions that led us to this point. It could still be put to Russia that we stop and put our heads together and have a big organisation that covers everyone. No doubt the PRC would refuse because their from of socialism does not allow for it to change direction. The treatment of the uigar people demonstrates this very well as did the Tianemin square massacre of their own people.
Russians left to the devices of the pary have a distrust of us in the west, they have had too many occasions when they got a thorough kicking to easily forget.
Let's talk to the Russians and offer an alternative to placating the PRC to avoid an incursion into Siberia. They have long lusted after the resources and if they see a weakness they will in there like a rat up a drainpipe.
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@mike amos said:
Mike is correct in his assessment that the west failed the people of Russia and the USSR collapse caused the deaths of many people both through direct and indirect means. I am talking of people dying through hunger and malnutrition
The military were not being paid and soviet era nuclear submarines and weapons were simply dumped on beaches and in deep water north of their coast, i9n some areas within the protected zone.
Aircrew were taking aircraft and spares and just leaving. Most of the charity deliveries to Africa especially but across the world, were delivered by aircraft being flown by crews who had not been discharged from military service but abandoned. We COULD have done a lot to help given we were cutting our military costs by orders of magnitude. The British army reduced tank regiments by half in a very short space of time.
Let's be open and honest here, people in leadership positions over decades made decisions that led us to this point. It could still be put to Russia that we stop and put our heads together and have a big organisation that covers everyone. No doubt the PRC would refuse because their from of socialism does not allow for it to change direction. The treatment of the uigar people demonstrates this very well as did the Tianemin square massacre of their own people.
Russians left to the devices of the pary have a distrust of us in the west, they have had too many occasions when they got a thorough kicking to easily forget.
Let's talk to the Russians and offer an alternative to placating the PRC to avoid an incursion into Siberia. They have long lusted after the resources and if they see a weakness they will in there like a rat up a drainpipe.
You are right Mike. Its one big game of chess! The Ukrainian president is calling for mass marches by the people of the West to protest against Russia. While I would attend such a local march I would also make sure that my placard read, 'Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right!'.
Apart from the terrible bloodshed in the Ukraine the most worrying thing for me the the Doomsday Clock setting which presently running at 100 seconds to midnight! The general population don't seem to be that worried about this situation. All it would take is a small slip and humanity is done for.
https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/timeline/I still reluctantly remain neutral on the Ukrainian situation simply because taking any particular side leaves no room for negotiation and it will be through negotiation that this mess will be settled peacefully. While I feel totally helpless with regard to what I can do personally with the exception of voicing a possible unpopular viewpoint, I will remain hopeful that wise men will prevail and we will see better days ahead. The world needs Direct Democracy, it will be the best ongoing political solution for the current challenges the World faces.
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