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3D Truss Models

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  • M Offline
    medeek
    last edited by 30 Apr 2019, 23:07

    First look at an asymmetric roof:

    http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su381_800.jpg

    Note the addition of "Asymmetric Options" in the edit menu (4 parameters).

    Also note that the rafter depth is different for each side of the roof as well as the birds mouth cut.

    If the delta height is non-zero (can be either negative or positive) then I have the ceiling joists disabled for now. I will need some more direction with regard to that possible configuration.

    I now just need to focus on the advanced options and bring them up to speed for an asymmetric gable roof (ie. gutters, hip and ridge, rake boards, sheathing, cladding etc...)

    I've also spent some considerable time cleaning up the rafter roof module and re-organizing the file structure where it seemed prudent. The thing about these plugins is there is always more to do.

    Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
    Medeek Engineering Inc
    design.medeek.com

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    • M Offline
      medeek
      last edited by 2 May 2019, 00:15

      Version 2.3.6 - 05.01.2019

      • Enabled asymmetric gable rafter roofs (imperial and metric units).

      Tutorial 14: Asymmetric Gable Roofs

      Sometimes you just never know until you dig into it. This latest update required a virtual rewrite of the entire rafter roof module. Asymmetric roofs literally change everything up. I'm glad to get this one wrapped up and behind me.

      Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
      Medeek Engineering Inc
      design.medeek.com

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      • M Offline
        medeek
        last edited by 2 May 2019, 03:03

        The asymmetric roof addition beat me up pretty hard for about three days, but in the end I won out. Now I need to look at the hip roof and how best to deal with multi pitches...

        With the hip roof we are now talking about four different possible top plate heights with four different possible pitches, birdsmouth cuts, and rafter depths.

        If one is to assume that the fascia boards all line up (gutters), then the top plates heights are actually driven by the roof overhang and the pitch of each roof plane. Only one roof plane (Plane A) will actually have its plate height set (the zero or base height of the roof), the other roof planes' top plate heights will be automatically calculated.

        I suppose there is always the possibility where the fascia don't line up but I think this is more the exception than the rule, correct me if I am wrong.

        As I've given this some more thought it occurred to me that typically the designer will set the roof pitches from the outset. Then, in order to get the fascia to line up, he/she can either adjust the overhang or the top plate height (assume that the birdsmouth cut is set to some value). So depending on the situation the user may want the plugin to calculate either the overhang (same top plate height) or the top plate height (same overhang). I will need to give this some more thought.

        If the user keys in a numeric value for the overhang (roof planes B, C or D) then the edit menu can automatically set the delta height (top plate heights) for each respective roof plane to "AUTO". Likewise if a value is keyed in for the delta height the HTML form can set the respective overhang(s) to "AUTO".

        Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
        Medeek Engineering Inc
        design.medeek.com

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        • M Offline
          medeek
          last edited by 2 May 2019, 18:53

          I don't normally post on the boards regarding price changes in the plugins however I thought it might be worth noting that I have decreased the renewal price on the Truss plugin to $10.00. The idea being that once you have paid your initial license fee ongoing renewals are mostly a token payment.

          Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
          Medeek Engineering Inc
          design.medeek.com

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          • M Offline
            medeek
            last edited by 2 May 2019, 20:50

            Continuing on with regards to multi pitch hip roofs we need to be very clear about what point on the roof lines up when we talk about lining up the fascia. Do we mean the sub-fascia, rafter tail or the fascia?

            Since I currently don’t have the fascia and soffit added yet I can probably ignore these for now and state that the top of the fascia board must line up with other fascia boards on other roof planes.

            Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
            Medeek Engineering Inc
            design.medeek.com

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            • P Offline
              pbacot
              last edited by 3 May 2019, 07:21

              That make sense but in cutting rafters or fabricating trusses, isn't the only thing they can really do is line up the top of the rafter tails? Actually if there are tails, the truss manufacturer will leave it to the carpenter.

              MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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              • M Offline
                medeek
                last edited by 4 May 2019, 22:46

                @pbacot said:

                That make sense but in cutting rafters or fabricating trusses, isn't the only thing they can really do is line up the top of the rafter tails? Actually if there are tails, the truss manufacturer will leave it to the carpenter.

                In the field I think its typical to provide rafter tails that are too long so that they can be trimmed all at once (chalk line) to ensure that they all line up.

                Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                Medeek Engineering Inc
                design.medeek.com

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                • M Offline
                  medeek
                  last edited by 5 May 2019, 08:05

                  I've got the asymmetric options added to the edit menu and the common rafters and fascia are calculating correctly:

                  http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su382_800.jpg

                  Note that all four pitches are different values, however the fascia lines up all the way around the roof as it should (in this case I have the overhangs auto calculating).

                  Next I will work on the hip rafters and jack rafters. As we can see in this example, all symmetry is broken, each hip rafter will be unique (x4) as well as each set of jack rafters (x8). Luckily we can program this sort of thing, drawing this type of roof manually would be a real headache.

                  Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                  Medeek Engineering Inc
                  design.medeek.com

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                  • M Offline
                    medeek
                    last edited by 5 May 2019, 19:49

                    First look at the sheathing and labels for an asymmetric hip roof:

                    http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su383_800.jpg

                    http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su384_800.jpg

                    Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                    Medeek Engineering Inc
                    design.medeek.com

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                    • M Offline
                      medeek
                      last edited by 6 May 2019, 04:02

                      Pitch and SQFT callouts/labels are now working:

                      http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su385_800.jpg

                      Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                      Medeek Engineering Inc
                      design.medeek.com

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                      • M Offline
                        medeek
                        last edited by 8 May 2019, 03:03

                        Hip and Ridge Cap is now working:

                        http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su386_800.jpg

                        This chunk of code is just for the ridge cap geometry:

                        @Phi1_3 = atan(sin(@Phiplane13) * tan(@Phi) * cos(@Phihip13))
                        @Phi3_1 = atan(cos(@Phiplane13) * tan(@Phi3) * cos(@Phihip13))
                        				
                        @Phialpha1_3 = acos(cos(@Phihip13) * sin(@Phiplane13))
                        @Phialpha3_1 = acos(cos(@Phihip13) * cos(@Phiplane13))
                        
                        @Psi1_3 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi)*cos(@Phi3)))
                        
                        @Phi2_3 = atan(sin(@Phiplane23) * tan(@Phi2) * cos(@Phihip23))
                        @Phi3_2 = atan(cos(@Phiplane23) * tan(@Phi3) * cos(@Phihip23))
                        				
                        @Phialpha2_3 = acos(cos(@Phihip23) * sin(@Phiplane23))
                        @Phialpha3_2 = acos(cos(@Phihip23) * cos(@Phiplane23))
                        
                        @Psi2_3 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi2)*cos(@Phi3)))
                        
                        			
                        @Phi1_4 = atan(sin(@Phiplane14) * tan(@Phi) * cos(@Phihip14))
                        @Phi4_1 = atan(cos(@Phiplane14) * tan(@Phi4) * cos(@Phihip14))
                        				
                        @Phialpha1_4 = acos(cos(@Phihip14) * sin(@Phiplane14))
                        @Phialpha4_1 = acos(cos(@Phihip14) * cos(@Phiplane14))
                        
                        @Psi1_4 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi)*cos(@Phi4)))
                        
                        
                        @Phi2_4 = atan(sin(@Phiplane24) * tan(@Phi2) * cos(@Phihip24))
                        @Phi4_2 = atan(cos(@Phiplane24) * tan(@Phi4) * cos(@Phihip24))
                        				
                        @Phialpha2_4 = acos(cos(@Phihip24) * sin(@Phiplane24))
                        @Phialpha4_2 = acos(cos(@Phihip24) * cos(@Phiplane24))
                        
                        @Psi2_4 = asin(0.70710678118 * sqrt(1.0 - cos(@Phi2)*cos(@Phi4)))
                        
                        			
                        @Ridgex = (cos(@Phi)*@HRthk*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5)) - sin(@Phi) * @HRthk
                        @Ridgey = (sin(@Phi)*@HRthk*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5)) + cos(@Phi) * @HRthk
                        
                        
                        if @Sheathing_option == "YES"
                        if @Roofbatten == "YES"
                        if @Cboption == "YES"
                        thtot = @Cbheight + @Battenheight + @Sheathing_thickness + @Roofcladding_thickness
                        else
                        thtot = @Battenheight + @Sheathing_thickness + @Roofcladding_thickness
                        end
                        else
                        thtot = @Sheathing_thickness + @Roofcladding_thickness
                        end
                        else
                        if @Roofbatten == "YES"
                        if @Cboption == "YES"
                        thtot = @Cbheight + @Battenheight + @Roofcladding_thickness
                        else
                        thtot = @Battenheight + @Roofcladding_thickness
                        end
                        else
                        thtot =  @Roofcladding_thickness
                        end
                        end
                        
                        
                        # Extension at Peak
                        
                        @Wa3 = PI - (@Phialpha3_1 + @Phialpha3_2)
                        @Beta23 = atan(sin(@Wa3)/(tan(@Psi1_3)/(tan(@Psi2_3)) + cos(@Wa3)))
                        @Beta13 = @Wa3 - @Beta23
                        
                        ext13 = (thtot * tan(@Psi1_3))/(tan(@Beta13))
                        ext23 = (thtot * tan(@Psi2_3))/(tan(@Beta23))
                        
                        			
                        @Wa4 = PI - (@Phialpha4_1 + @Phialpha4_2)
                        @Beta24 = atan(sin(@Wa4)/(tan(@Psi1_4)/(tan(@Psi2_4)) + cos(@Wa4)))
                        @Beta14 = @Wa4 - @Beta24
                        
                        ext14 = (thtot * tan(@Psi1_4))/(tan(@Beta14))
                        ext24 = (thtot * tan(@Psi2_4))/(tan(@Beta24))
                        
                        
                        # Ridge Length and Extensions
                        
                        ridgedx = (cos(@Phi)*thtot*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5))
                        ridgedy = (sin(@Phi)*thtot*tan((@Phi + @Phi2)*0.5))
                        
                        length_sq = thtot**2 + ridgedx**2 + ridgedy**2
                        	
                        
                        rext3 = sqrt(ext13**2 + (thtot/(cos(@Psi1_3)))**2 - length_sq)
                        rext4 = sqrt(ext14**2 + (thtot/(cos(@Psi1_4)))**2 - length_sq)
                        
                        phicheck3 = atan(ext13*cos(@Psi1_3)/thtot) + PI - @Phihip13
                        phicheck4 = atan(ext14*cos(@Psi1_4)/thtot) + PI - @Phihip14
                        			
                        if phicheck3 > PI
                        	rext3 = -1.0 * rext3
                        end
                        	
                        if phicheck4 > PI
                        	rext4 = -1.0 * rext4
                        end
                        	
                        @Ridgecaplength = @Arraylength - @Hipf - @Hipb + rext3 + rext4
                        

                        Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                        Medeek Engineering Inc
                        design.medeek.com

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                        • P Offline
                          pbacot
                          last edited by 8 May 2019, 04:38

                          WOW.

                          I hope you never see a roof like this, but kudos for handling the situations where we may have a couple different pitches anyway.

                          MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                          • M Offline
                            medeek
                            last edited by 8 May 2019, 06:07

                            Gutters and Downspouts are now functional for the Asymmetric Hip Rafter Roof:

                            http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su387_800.jpg

                            Even with the different overhangs and top plate heights the gutter height (fascia) is the same height all the way around. However the downspouts on opposite sides of the roof are customized per the overhang on each respective side.

                            Tomorrow I will jump back into the hip and jack rafters and see if we can wrap this one up.

                            The good news is that the required code for the asymmetric hip and jacks already exists. I will be borrowing from the roof return module where I handled dissimilar pitches. The bad news is that after a cursory review of this block of code I have absolutely no idea how it actually works anymore (I haven't looked at it in about 2 years). It's just a matter of reverse engineering my own code for about an hour and it will all come back to me.

                            Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                            Medeek Engineering Inc
                            design.medeek.com

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                            • M Offline
                              medeek
                              last edited by 10 May 2019, 17:43

                              I'm actually still working on the hip rafters. The complexity of a multi-pitch roof took another unexpected turn with the realization that when roof planes A and B are different pitches it causes an offset in the rafters at the peak which requires some additional logic to account for this fact with the placement of the hip rafters and their geometry.

                              I'm also still a bit conflicted on how to best handle the birdsmouth cut of the hip rafters when they walls have different top plate heights. In some cases the hip rafter misses the corner entirely and is askew on one of the walls, this is the simple case. In other cases the hip rafter technically rests at the "corner" but since there are two different wall heights possible it is not clear how the birdsmouth cut should be constructed exactly. I'm assuming that the higher plate height will govern.

                              Does anyone have any photos or details of actual construction where a hip rafter bisects a corner where the top plate heights vary?

                              Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                              Medeek Engineering Inc
                              design.medeek.com

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                              • P Offline
                                pbacot
                                last edited by 10 May 2019, 21:37

                                Got me looking for examples. I've created (or passed on) far more problems like this for others, than I ever had to deal with in the field. You might look at this guys webpage. https://deskgram.net/explore/tags/bastardhip

                                MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                • M Offline
                                  medeek
                                  last edited by 10 May 2019, 22:39

                                  Note how this hip rafter sits askew, only on one wall:

                                  https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/0c3557437b831311132380364886be2f/5D60F286/t51.2885-15/e35/35575469_1787088774714743_1874779179191369728_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com

                                  Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                  Medeek Engineering Inc
                                  design.medeek.com

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                                  • P Offline
                                    pbacot
                                    last edited by 11 May 2019, 02:36

                                    Yes. I once did a little roof framing, using old school framing square methods from a book. Sometimes I just had to work it out in the field.

                                    MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                    • M Offline
                                      medeek
                                      last edited by 11 May 2019, 05:45

                                      When the hip roof is asymmetric across the ridge you end up with a situation like what is shown below:

                                      http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su388_800.jpg

                                      The common rafter in the upper right is a 7:12 pitch and the common rafter in the lower left is a 10:12 pitch. Normally with a symmetric hip or gable roof the common rafters would be flush with the top of the ridge board.

                                      However in the asymmetric case the steeper pitched side is flush and the lesser pitched side overshoots the ridge board just slightly as shown. This additional asymmetry causes further complications in the calculations of the hip rafter that is adjacent to the overshooting common.

                                      Also note that the seams in the sheathing (edges of the roof planes) do not center up on the ridge board or hip rafters. This is not a flaw or an error it is just the way the asymmetric roof goes together.

                                      It appears that I have the hips correctly calculating now (after nearly two days of intense debugging and about 10 sheets of engineering pad) however tomorrow I will continue with further testing, to see if I can break anything, and then begin attacking the jack rafters.

                                      A further look at the bird mouth cut question in shown in the example below:

                                      http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su389_800.jpg

                                      So in reality I am still missing the birds mouth cut for the hip rafters and the implementation of the soffit cut for trimming the tails of the hip rafters. Always too much to do and never enough time to get it all done.

                                      I'm really hoping that the jack rafter piece is a lot less trouble than the hip rafters, I would really like to get this roof type wrapped up by the end of the weekend.

                                      Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                      Medeek Engineering Inc
                                      design.medeek.com

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                                      • M Offline
                                        medeek
                                        last edited by 11 May 2019, 17:46

                                        Since each hip rafter is potentially unique each one requires the following calculations (for those that are interested):

                                        @Returnext = @HipendX + @Overhang3_num
                                        @Returnext2 = (@Pitch3/@Pitch) * @Returnext
                                        @Returnexthip = sqrt(@Returnext * @Returnext + @Returnext2 * @Returnext2)	
                                        			
                                        @Zeta = acos(@Returnext/@Returnexthip)
                                        
                                        @Tcy4mod = 0 - @Fascia_width * (tan(@Phi) - tan(@Phi3))
                                        @Returnext2mod = @Tcy4mod/(tan(@Phi))		
                                        
                                        @Zeta_a = atan((tan(@Zeta))/(cos(@Phihip13)))
                                        @Zeta_b = atan(tan(@Zeta)*cos(@Phihip13))
                                        @Iota = atan(sin(@Zeta)*tan(@Phihip13))
                                        @Kappa = atan(cos(@Zeta)*tan(@Phihip13))
                                        
                                        @Term1 = (cos(@Zeta_a))/(cos(@Iota)) + ((sin(@Zeta_b))/(cos(@Kappa))) * ((tan(@Phi) - tan(@Iota))/(tan(@Phi3) - tan(@Kappa)))
                                        @Abar = @Ply/@Term1
                                        @Hipoffsetx = (@Returnexthip - @Ply) * sin(@Zeta)
                                        @Bbar = @Abar * ((tan(@Phi) - tan(@Iota))/(tan(@Phi3) - tan(@Kappa)))
                                        @Ebar = @Returnext - ((@Returnext2 + @Returnext2mod - @Abar)/(tan(@Zeta)))
                                        @Fbar = @Returnext2 + @Returnext2mod - (tan(@Zeta))*(@Returnext - @Bbar)
                                        
                                        if @Phi2 > @Phi
                                        	@Zbar = @Ry4 - @Ry4r
                                        	@Xbar = @Zbar/(tan(@Phi))
                                        	@Bbarmod = ((@Abar+@Xbar) * (tan(@Phi) - tan(@Iota)) - @Zbar) / (tan(@Phi3) - tan(@Kappa))
                                        else
                                        	@Zbar = 0
                                        	@Xbar = 0
                                        	@Bbarmod = @Bbar
                                        		
                                        end
                                        
                                        @Exthip13 = ((@Xbar+@Abar)*cos(@Phihip13)/tan(@Zeta))/(cos(@Phialpha1_3)) - @Zbar/(tan(@Phihip13))
                                        

                                        Term1 of the Abar equation is really interesting. If I took the time I could probably condense down some of the variables and reduce the amount of algebra but then in the future it would be harder for me to follow, so it is best left as verbose as possible for myself and future generations.

                                        The terms Abar, Bbar, EBar and Fbar specify the compound bevel cuts at the peak and eave of the hip rafter.

                                        Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                        Medeek Engineering Inc
                                        design.medeek.com

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                                        • M Offline
                                          medeek
                                          last edited by 11 May 2019, 19:16

                                          Actually I stand corrected. The sheathing does center up on the ridge board provided that you do vertically offset the opposing common rafters as shown in the previous images. A top down view shows the result:

                                          http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su390_800.jpg

                                          If you don't vertically offset the commons and the pitch on plane A and B differ then the ridge board will not center up on the sheathing. For now I have it centering and a vertical offset, for future work I may provide an option to toggle between these two possible configurations.

                                          Here is a view of the other side of the roof, note the different top plate heights and where the hip rafters land on them and the corners:

                                          http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su391_800.jpg

                                          Better yet, go ahead and download my test model that was most recently generated by the new asymmetric module:

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          3D Warehouse

                                          3D Warehouse is a website of searchable, pre-made 3D models that works seamlessly with SketchUp.

                                          favicon

                                          (3dwarehouse.sketchup.com)

                                          Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                          Medeek Engineering Inc
                                          design.medeek.com

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