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3D Truss Models

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  • P Offline
    pbacot
    last edited by 21 Nov 2015, 20:26

    It probably is dependant on the building design what height the cuts are, unless you want to make them even and have no overhang. then the eaves could be the same height. Otherwise with overhangs it seems each building is a special case: whether you want to even up the roof edge height or not, how wide the overhangs are etc.

    MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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    • M Offline
      medeek
      last edited by 21 Nov 2015, 21:22

      @pcmoor said:

      Hi Nathaniel,

      I made a few Dynamics of hips, valley creepers (see my warehouse page) may help in working out pitching points and angles, or help to formulate your ideas
      https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/user.html?id=0838679030929007270242769

      philip

      Do you make these models dynamic within Sketchup or code them in? I need to figure out how to make dynamic components using the API so far I'm not finding much documentation.

      Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
      Medeek Engineering Inc
      design.medeek.com

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      • M Offline
        medeek
        last edited by 21 Nov 2015, 21:30

        Given the slopes of the dual pitch truss and the span calculate the distance between the left bearing and the peak:

        http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/GEOMETRY/DUALPITCH1.jpg

        However, you might notice that we are assuming the buttcut and top chord depth is equivalent for both sides. If the slopes are different then this will mean that the heel heights will be different. Should the heel heights be the same?

        Addendum:

        After giving this some more thought the key for a continuous eave line is (ie. hip roofs) is the fascia. The fascia height is a function of the overhang, pitch, top chord depth and buttcut. I think the easiest is to default to equivalent buttcut and top chord depth for both left and right sides of the dual pitch roof and then give the option for independent overhang and raised heels for both sides this should give enough latitude to the designer so they can make any configuration possible.

        Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
        Medeek Engineering Inc
        design.medeek.com

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        • M Offline
          medeek
          last edited by 21 Nov 2015, 21:38

          Downloaded the new 2016 SketchUp and installed the plugin, no issues thus far so I'm going to say its 2016 compatible.

          For now I'm going to stay with the current .rbs encryption method otherwise the plugin will not work with previous versions of SketchUp.

          Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
          Medeek Engineering Inc
          design.medeek.com

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          • M Offline
            medeek
            last edited by 22 Nov 2015, 06:54

            Outlookers enabled under advanced roof options for Common, Scissor and Attic truss types.

            http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su19_800.jpg

            Not really sure what is the best treatment of the outlookers at the peak of the roof and consequently what is best way to space them. Measure them from the peak or the eave/fascia?

            One thing worth noting here is that structural outlookers are also enabled but I have not yet coded in the dropped top chord gable end trusses that would match structural outlookers, something for another day. Due to the option of vertically or horizontally oriented outlookers the configuration of a dropped top chord gable end truss can take two configurations. For attic trusses this gets even more complicated at the gable end, hence I haven't even attempted the gable end truss option for attic truss types yet.

            The hot items on the todo list right now are:

            • Tail Bearing Trusses
            • Gambrel Attic Trusses
            • Dual Pitch Trusses
            • Rafter Roof (Gable and Hip)
            • Valley Truss Set
            • Hip Truss Sets

            If you feel like something should take precedence over these items please advise.

            Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
            Medeek Engineering Inc
            design.medeek.com

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            • M Offline
              medeek
              last edited by 22 Nov 2015, 09:52

              Version 1.1.3 - 11.21.2015
              Outlookers enabled under advanced roof options for Common, Scissor and Attic truss types.
              Gable end trusses enabled for (2/2, 4/4) scissor truss types.

              http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su20_800.jpg

              Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
              Medeek Engineering Inc
              design.medeek.com

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              • P Offline
                pbacot
                last edited by 22 Nov 2015, 16:29

                Very nice. Around here we just put a vertical block at the ridge behind the barge rafter and the first outlooker (outrigger) is spaced away from this. Also when a rafter is over the gable wall and the outrigger is structural (commonly it is), the lowest one is spaced away from the birdsmouth so the notch doesn't weaken the rafer so much..

                MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                • M Offline
                  medeek
                  last edited by 22 Nov 2015, 20:28

                  Outlookers get a little complicated depending on whether they are structural or not. Typically around here we see them at 24" on center and they are usually structural. The top chord of the truss is dropped either 1.5" or 3.5" depending on if they are oriented horizontally or vertically. With structural lookouts the first lookout from the eave is usually non-structural since the dropped top chord truss will have a special slider attached to top chord to achieve the overhang. See image below:

                  http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/SAMPLES/B15050134-Shops_Page_1.jpg

                  Usually the sheeting goes on starting at the bottom so based on that the lookouts would be measured from the bottom edge of the sheeting so that they line up with the seams every 48".

                  I've seen a single vertical placed the ridge when the outlookers are vertical however what is common practice when the outlookers are horizontal?

                  Notice the different configuration of the top chord when the drop is only 1.5" (oriented flat).

                  http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/SAMPLES/Dropped_Top_Chord_2.jpg

                  If the overhang is zero then this slider or splice goes away.

                  http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/SAMPLES/Lot-146-Truss-Profiles_11.jpg

                  Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                  Medeek Engineering Inc
                  design.medeek.com

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                  • M Offline
                    medeek
                    last edited by 22 Nov 2015, 21:38

                    A dropped top chord with flat orientation might look something like this (spliced top chord):

                    http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/SAMPLES/Dropped_Top_Chord_3.jpg

                    Without an overhang the gable end truss becomes (no splice or slider required):

                    http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/SAMPLES/Dropped_Top_Chord_4.jpg

                    Note that the outlookers would probably be spaced from the bottom at 24" on center, so this model is not quite correct.

                    Another interesting point to note is that if the overhang or top chord of the truss is a 2x4 and one wants to use structural 2x6 vertical outlookers at the gable end. How would that work, I don't think it would at least not easily. If the outlookers are structural and vertical I will constrain them to be the same depth as the top chord in order to simplify things. This applies to imperial or metric, units are not a factor.

                    I'm going to need some serious logic to properly deal with gable end trusses and outlookers in order to properly cover all of the options and possible configurations, especially when you throw raised heel trusses into the mix.

                    Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                    Medeek Engineering Inc
                    design.medeek.com

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                    • M Offline
                      medeek
                      last edited by 23 Nov 2015, 07:20

                      Vertical structural outlookers with 12" overhang and 16" gable overhang:

                      http://design.medeek.com/resources/truss/DOCUMENTS/SAMPLES/Dropped_Top_Chord_5.jpg

                      Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                      Medeek Engineering Inc
                      design.medeek.com

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                      • J Offline
                        juju
                        last edited by 23 Nov 2015, 08:43

                        steam rolling ahead!

                        Save the Earth, it's the only planet with chocolate.

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                        • M Offline
                          medeek
                          last edited by 23 Nov 2015, 09:39

                          Just for fun I was playing with Thea a bit this afternoon. I might have to purchase this render software its really quite nice:

                          http://design.medeek.com/images/misc/testhouse3_1024.jpg

                          Does anyone have a better wood grain or color to use when rendering lumber? As you can see the striations don't really line up with the direction of the lumber.

                          Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                          Medeek Engineering Inc
                          design.medeek.com

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                          • M Offline
                            medeek
                            last edited by 23 Nov 2015, 09:45

                            @juju said:

                            steam rolling ahead!

                            Note, I have not coded the dropped top chord variants into the plugin yet I'm just verifying the correct way to frame out these different options with feedback from others before I commit to a specific method.

                            I've spent some time chatting with some of my contractor friends and the consensus seems to be that measuring the outlookers from the bottom is fairly standard practice. There does seem to be disagreement on how best to deal with outlookers at the peak though. I like the idea of two outlookers each side of the ridge. Some say one vertical, others say none provided the last two adjacent outlookers are relatively close to the peak (I wish they would quantify what close means).

                            I would like to get this as close to realistic as possible regardless of the logic and complexity otherwise what is the point. I'm not into modeling cartoons, I want it as you would build it.

                            Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                            Medeek Engineering Inc
                            design.medeek.com

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                            • N Offline
                              nlipovac
                              last edited by 23 Nov 2015, 12:27

                              @medeek said:

                              Just for fun I was playing with Thea a bit this afternoon. I might have to purchase this render software its really quite nice:

                              http://design.medeek.com/images/misc/testhouse3_1024.jpg

                              Does anyone have a better wood grain or color to use when rendering lumber? As you can see the striations don't really line up with the direction of the lumber.

                              As for wood grain, easiest way is to do texturing inside SU (for me anyway), and then use Thea to render.
                              I would then use IBL (Some studio setup HDRI) + SUN button for light and Ground button to have base plane for shadows,and all this takes 10 min to setup.
                              My biased opinion is to go and buy Thea, it is one great product with +5 integration with SU.

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                              • M Offline
                                medeek
                                last edited by 24 Nov 2015, 06:45

                                Outlookers enabled under advanced roof options for Monopitch truss types.

                                http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su21_800.jpg

                                Also fixed all truss types so that the outlookers are measured from the bottom. I also added the option to include outlookers at the peak.

                                Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                Medeek Engineering Inc
                                design.medeek.com

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                                • M Offline
                                  medeek
                                  last edited by 24 Nov 2015, 08:18

                                  Does anyone have any good resources for working with dynamic components within the API? I really would like to make the top chords dynamic so that the overhang can be adjusted after the fact if necessary.

                                  Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                  Medeek Engineering Inc
                                  design.medeek.com

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                                  • M Offline
                                    medeek
                                    last edited by 25 Nov 2015, 11:18

                                    Version 1.1.4 - 11.25.2015
                                    Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Fink) truss type.
                                    Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Fink) truss type with raised heel (vertical w/ strut).

                                    http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su22_800.jpg

                                    Notice that when structural outlookers are selected the top chord of the gable end truss is dropped accordingly. This may look simple now that I've got it working (at least for one type of common truss) but the amount of logic required to make sure everything comes out right is somewhat mind boggling.

                                    Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                    Medeek Engineering Inc
                                    design.medeek.com

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                                    • P Offline
                                      pbacot
                                      last edited by 25 Nov 2015, 15:54

                                      Nice work. It is scary how much you are able to do and what goes into all this. The clean output is what we see--and so many options worked in.

                                      For texture I think you also have to look into ruby to find out how to orient it the way you want. It doesn't matter what texture you use.

                                      There are some good NPR wood textures in the Sketchucation store, but I am not sure if it contains one that would give you the fresh douglas fir look.

                                      MacOSX MojaveSketchUp Pro v19 Twilight v2 Thea v3 PowerCADD

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                                      • M Offline
                                        medeek
                                        last edited by 25 Nov 2015, 22:02

                                        Thank-you for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I feel like I am digging a bit deep when it comes to all of these options it certainly adds to the amount of code required and the complexity. Some options are also dependent on others so it becomes a tangled web that requires careful analysis to mare sure that certain options can still work when others are not enabled. The good news is that I've probably got most of the options added to the fink truss that I will ever add so further complexity should not be too much of a problem. Now it is just a matter of adding different truss types, and other related items, more breadth and less depth.

                                        If it can be mathematically modeled then it can be programmed into the plugin. What you are seeing on your screen or in SketchUp is a visual representation of a mathematical model of the truss group and associated framing.

                                        Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                        Medeek Engineering Inc
                                        design.medeek.com

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                                        • M Offline
                                          medeek
                                          last edited by 26 Nov 2015, 01:30

                                          Version 1.1.5 - 11.25.2015

                                          • Added Double Fink common truss type.
                                          • Structural outlookers (vert. & horz.) enabled under advanced roof options for Common (Double Fink) truss type.

                                          http://design.medeek.com/resources/images/truss_su23_800.jpg

                                          Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
                                          Medeek Engineering Inc
                                          design.medeek.com

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