Finally gone back(i mean forward) to a PC!
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@mike lucey said:
Oli,
Maybe the solution could be to have a self built PC workhorse that can be upgraded and repaired quickly when the occasion arises and a half decent Mac for occasional use / fun?That's kinda what I'm doing. I still keep my iMac in my bedroom for web browsing, it's been retired. I will use it until it stops working and then I will ceremoniously burn it. You are all welcome to bring some petrol. Might even film myself throwing it out the window to annoy the Apple fanboys on youtube. It would make me very happy.
@gareth said:
give Oli a break.....he's given up smoking
.....and with the amount of money he's saved he deserves a treat....!!!
Yeah come on guys, I nearly picked up a packet of cigarettes!
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@unknownuser said:
I'm buying a new SU, I have always used the free SU with dozens of plugins so never had to use the pro. Trimble also changed their rules on using the free version for commercial work. I was a die hard SU8 user, not as bad as Pilou though.
My render licenses are all transferable. Podium, Twilight and Thea that is, I don't know about other programs.
Thanks, for your info.
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@olishea said:
Not much point me justifying it because it seems like you are only concerned about price and that's just 1% of the argument. It's like you are glazing over everything else I've written Jeff. I think you may have your Apple Goggles on; like Beer Goggles but more hipster.
sorry, it's not about apple googles. (like really.. it's not)
it's about nearly anything to be said in a mac vs pc argument, there are also valid counterpoints.. from either side.
here are some realities:
in any given field requiring personal computers, the best people are using macs and PCs.. or- there's a mac user out there that's better than most people using sketchup... there's a PC user out there that's better than most people using sketchup..
there's a mac user out there who's a more successful stock trader than most traders.. there's a pc user out there who's more successful than most traders..
and on and on..
if the stuff you're saying held truth in the big picture then this wouldn't be the case.. pc users would be better 3d modelers since mac sux and pc rulez..
i could go on with that train of thought but hopefully you get the idea.
if you had a bad experience with an apple product then yeah, i'm sure you have a sour opinion of apple.. but it should be pretty obvious by now what will happen if you go on the internets and start voicing opinions as fact regarding mac vs. pc..
like, are you actually surprised there are people in this thread saying things opposite of you? i mean surely, more crap has been typed on the internet regarding mac vs pc than any other debate out there.. we all (should) know exactly what's going to happen in this thread upon first typing your title. -
Jeff,
Yay for internet flame wars!
One point I'd like to make in response: Something that is not relative (afaik - and I've been building my PC's for many years) is that PC's are less expensive and more modifiable/ upgradable. I can't imagine for ex. trying to set up a renderfarm with Apples - just doesn't happen. That seems a pretty clear bang for the buck bottom line. It's when you start weighing in style and user experience that the calculations may start to shift.
Andy
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I just came here thinking some of you guys might tell me if an i7-4970k would be faster at Sketchup than an i7-5930K Processor. I was thinking that as Sketchup is single threaded this might be better because in this tiny list it says that the 4970k is the fastest single threaded processor in the market...
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
However I apologize this interruption as I now see this is a Mac Vs PC thread...
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@andybot said:
Jeff,
Yay for internet flame wars!
One point I'd like to make in response: Something that is not relative (afaik - and I've been building my PC's for many years) is that PC's are less expensive and more modifiable/ upgradable. I can't imagine for ex. trying to set up a renderfarm with Apples - just doesn't happen. That seems a pretty clear bang for the buck bottom line. It's when you start weighing in style and user experience that the calculations may start to shift.
there's conflicting info in there..
a mac is an entire computer.. just like some PCs..
if you're going to set up a renderfarm, how many of these are you going to buy?
probably none of them.. is that right?
but that's the (type of) computer you should be making the mac pro comparisons to..if i want to set up a render farm which i drive with ,say, a macbook.. i do the same thing as you.. go buy a bunch of components and frankenstein them together for cheap(er).. the same thing you do if you're driving the farm with windows..
anyway re: render farms.. pretty sure apple is ahead of the curve on that anyway.. they realize how expensive it is to use cpu for multicore processing.. their new mac pro doesn't even have dual sockets.. you want a multicore processing, use gpu... it's way way cheaper and offers thousands of cores vs a handful of cores.. we just have to wait for the software to catch up with the hardware but it will definitely happen within the life span of this new mac pro.. in a couple more years, the idea of going out and buying a 32core computer for rendering is going to seem quite silly and a huge waste of money.
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@jeff hammond said:
there's conflicting info in there..
a mac is an entire computer.. just like some PCs..
if you're going to set up a renderfarm, how many of these are you going to buy?good grief! I'm talking about a single cpu box kind of like what Oli got. I'd never get a workstation like that to sit in a render farm...
I guess you'll just going on not knowing anything about PC's like I don't know anything about macs and we can call it a day
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@andybot said:
good grief! I'm talking about a single cpu box kind of like what Oli got. I'd never get a workstation like that to sit in a render farm...
I guess you'll just going on not knowing anything about PC's like I don't know anything about macs and we can call it a day
i think it was more of a difference in our interpretation of 'render farm'..
to me, spending a thousand dollars for a quad core render farm in which you'll get a render back in 2hrs as opposed to 4 hrs is a complete waste of money no matter what manufacturer we're talking about.. especially when considering that with the right software, and a few hundred bucks on a gpu, you'll get your 4hr render back in 10minutes.. and this is only going to get faster and more common.
or just use a render farm service.. still going to be cheaper & faster doing it that way. -
2 pence,
my day job is in the UK Special Effects Industry, and most the Visual Effects companies I've worked with in the last 20yrs have been using mac's for their render farms, replacing their ancient Silicon Graphics machines...
a cluster of 1000 mac mini's doesn't take up much space, but a lot of them use mac book pro's or iMac's and watch live previews on each machine [ particularly on location ]...In SFX nearly all the engineers use PC's, but they almost never render...
In Design Dept's mac's appear ahead, same goes for Lighting, Props and Production [more recently this includes Accounts]...
Very few people remain loyal to an OS when their boss uses the other...
many people have both, and change hats per film...
SU is making inroads, slowly...
john
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Talking about Oli's new PC.
sorry… lol
Any advices about a new decent mouse? A decent desktop mouse, not these gamer's mice with 40 buttons, I mean.
My Logitech old (from 2006) G5 is almost dead. This USB wired with the weights you know. Loved it. -
@michaliszissiou said:
Talking about Oli's new PC.
sorry… lol
Any advices about a new decent mouse? A decent desktop mouse, not these gamer's mice with 40 buttons, I mean.
My Logitech old (from 2006) G5 is almost dead. This USB wired with the weights you know. Loved it. -
@driven said:
a cluster of 1000 mac mini's doesn't take up much space,
here's what 160 racked mac minis look like:
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well, I stand corrected. When I make a bazillion dollars freelancing, I'll get some goldplated mutha effin macs.
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@jeff hammond said:
especially when considering that with the right software, and a few hundred bucks on a gpu, you'll get your 4hr render back in 10minutes.. and this is only going to get faster and more common.
yes, does seem to be where it's headed. I'll agree with you there.
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@andybot said:
well, I stand corrected. When I make a bazillion dollars freelancing, I'll get some goldplated mutha effin macs.
they're not that expensivei needed a new desktop last year.. (the mac pro being replaced was from 2006.. still runs fine.. just can't run newer OS`s so can't run newer apps.. ie- sketchup 2015 won't run on it)..
i also needed a new display.
i bought an additional 16GB ram from crucial for $140..so for not quite $2500, i have:
i7 quad @ 3.5GHz
nvidia w/4GB vram
24 GB ram
3TB fusion drive (which is 128GB ssd combined with 3TB spinner)
and a really nice 27" displaythis thing will be fine for at least 4 years.. (i mean, my old desktop was fine for 8 years so i'm pretty sure the iMac will last at least 4 years)..
so, that's $50/month if i replace after 4years.. i really don't understand the "oh, those things are soo expensive "... my internet service costs more than $50/month, you know?
how much is a comparable pc going to cost? (plug&play -- not frankengeek)
if it's $800 or something then yeah, you all may have a valid point.. if it's $2000 then big deal.
(but i know it can't be $800.. the display alone for a comparable setup is going to be near that)
edit- oh.. note the RFB at the front.. that stands for refurbished.. i always by refurbs from apple.. definitely some better deals to be had when doing that instead of walking into an apple store and buying off the shelf.
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weeell, actually...
Probably in the next month or two I'm going to rebuild my main workstation with an i7-5930k (6 core 3.5Ghz), and have been saving a wishlist on Newegg. So far my total is just over $1k (CPU, motherboard, 16GB RAM, heatsink), but I still need to add in a solid state drive. I bought a budget workstation with a 6 core AMD four years ago for just under $1k. I already have a nice 24" IPS monitor, so no need for a new display (hoping that lasts me many more years.)
It's just a lot easier to make a budget go farther when there's so much more choice in components, and I can keep re-using my tower and PSU, drives, etc. -
@andybot said:
weeell, actually...
Probably in the next month or two I'm going to rebuild my main workstation with an i7-5930k (6 core 3.5Ghz), and have been saving a wishlist on Newegg. So far my total is just over $1k (CPU, motherboard, 16GB RAM, heatsink), but I still need to add in a solid state drive. I bought a budget workstation with a 6 core AMD four years ago for just under $1k. I already have a nice 24" IPS monitor, so no need for a new display (hoping that lasts me many more years.)
It's just a lot easier to make a budget go farther when there's so much more choice in components, and I can keep re-using my tower and PSU, drives, etc.you're talking about upgrading an existing computer.. why people think it's not possible to upgrade mac desktops is beyond me.
also, for the build your own crowd, that comparison to a mac doesn't make sense either because you can hackintosh the thing.. the same components etc that you're saving sooo much money on will run windows or osx..
not sure why it's so difficult to get the point across that a mac is an exact computer.. just like a dell or hp.. go to dell, configure the thing, then plug it in and go to town.. that's what a macintosh is..
if you want to build your own then build your own.. install osx on it if you want.. install windows on it.. doesn't matter.. but it's not an apple branded computer just like it's not a dell or asus or hp..
do you get the point? your $1k upgrade can be a hackintosh or a computer that runs windows..
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You can't hackintosh any component you want. Only a few are compatible.
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@jiminy-billy-bob said:
You can't hackintosh any component you want. Only a few are compatible.
i think it's a lot more than 'a few' but building a hackintosh isn't the point anyway (nor would i personally ever build one)
the point is- if you're going to go on some tirade about how expensive macs are, at least make the proper comparisons..
like oli took a 6-core mac pro (which are base $3500), said he added a mouse, an extended warranty, a screen, and a bit more ram and presto, you're at $12,000
then compares this mac pro with its workstation grade components to his quad gaming rig claiming how macs are 5x more expensive??
this is just dumb.. sorry
nowhere do you see me saying apple computers are cheaper than other brands.. that's not what i'm trying to say.. what i am saying is that they're not insanely priced relatively speaking and they're actually quite competitive price wise.
maybe you guys don't realize it but it's pretty insulting when you sit around insinuating mac users are a bunch of rich assholes buying stupid shiny toys while anyone serious about using a computer or needing to get any real work done is obviously using the much much cheaper and much more powerful windows computer.. it's lame and it's false.
and hey, i don't have much of the problem with the insults themselves.. especially because they're not even true.. my griping is more about pointing out if you're going to make a bunch of idiotic comparisons (or lies even) or misconceptions, at least understand it for what it is (an idiotic comparison)
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Jeff I give in. I am going to buy a mac.
Then burn it.
FYI it was actually Rich who changed the thread title.
Don't take it so personally man, I've been using Apple for years and finally gave up. My money my choice. Simples.
They don't call it the PC Master Race for nothing you know?
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