Dassault buying sketchup?

Jean Lemire · 5 Mar 2012, 18:15

Hi folks.

A few ideas.

Dassault system is the publisher of Catia.

Actually, Catia is at V5 with V6 around the corner, if not out already.

I saw a demo of V6 a few years ago and it showed a feature that looked identical to SU'S Push/Pull tool. Maybe they cannot copy that since there must be patent or copyrights of this feature, among other things.

Maybe the only way to be able to use that is to buy SketchUp.

I hope not since this could be the end of SU as we know it. They would probably incorporate it inside some larger scale software like Catia.

Catia's price is close to 20000 $ per licence if you add all required modules to do something useful.

Catia's is very slow to start, is complex and couterintuitive. Its learning curve is very steep.

Unless they propose a free simple program, we may see SU disapear.

And, finally, it will not appeal to the vast majority of people since many do not know Dassault System or think they are providing only professionnal programs for professionnal users.

I hope it is an unfounded rumor.

Just ideas.

tomot · 5 Mar 2012, 18:40

@mike lucey said:

Wow Tom! I bet you feel better after getting that off your chest

Yes I do Mike! ...but you know really deep down, I wont give up on SketchUP

jason_maranto · 5 Mar 2012, 18:41

Since I already pay for SketchUp Pro I'm not concerned if the free version disappears -- although I seriously doubt it would. And I have no fears of SketchUp being destroyed... It would be foolish for any company to turn away over 1 millions users, many of whom might be converted to a pro/pay package at some future date.

My concern would only be whether they intend to keep what is already good about SketchUp and improve what is not -- a commitment that Google seems to be lacking in either the will or resources to make. Dassault has the resources and the will to create professional 3D packages... something Google (apparently) does not, so in that sense I am for such a sale.

Much more so than I would be if SketchUp was sold to a company like Autodesk.

Best,
Jason.

solo · 5 Mar 2012, 18:46

I'm not buying this rumor.

Two words: Google Earth. nuff said.

jason_maranto · 5 Mar 2012, 18:49

I would agree except Building Maker has made SketchUp largely irrelevant for Google Earth... except for the occasional prestige items.

That said I also do not buy the rumor, however it certainly is intriguing.

Best,
Jason.

hellnbak · 5 Mar 2012, 19:17

@jason_maranto said:

Since I already pay for SketchUp Pro I'm not concerned if the free version disappears
Best,
Jason.

That's kinda cold, Jason. Very few SU users can afford the pro version

jason_maranto · 5 Mar 2012, 19:26

Let me ask you -- do you care if the Pro version disappears?

I know we have had this conversation before

However you may be right, my wife thinks I'm pretty cold in general too... I rather think of myself as being pragmatic -- business is business.

Best,
Jason.

hellnbak · 5 Mar 2012, 19:38

@jason_maranto said:

Let me ask you -- do you care if the Pro version disappears?

I know we have had this conversation before

Best,
Jason.

Yes, I would care about those that use the Pro version. I would also care because if the revenue producing version disappeared, the free version would soon follow.

But, having said that, I don't want to become one of those that jump on anything anybody says about anything, there's way too much of that happening all over the web nowadays. So how about we just end this here.

No offense intended.

Steve

tomot · 5 Mar 2012, 20:46

@jason_maranto said:

Let me ask you -- do you care if the Pro version disappears?
However you may be right, my wife thinks I'm pretty cold in general too...
Jason.

Very funny.....It seems this was never a problem, when we were all newly weds

jason_maranto · 5 Mar 2012, 20:52

Yeah, her pet name for me is Spock because she thinks I have the emotional range of a Vulcan, in her eyes I'm too logical -- but we've been together for nearly 15 years so I think we are doing OK

Best,
Jason.

tomot · 5 Mar 2012, 21:25

that's too .... too funny, your in the wrong business, you should be writing one Liners for Leno!

Gaieus · 6 Mar 2012, 06:18

@jason_maranto said:

I would agree except Building Maker has made SketchUp largely irrelevant for Google Earth... except for the occasional prestige items.

That's nonsense. Do you know how extremely few places BM is available? Also, a good BM workflow also incorporates SketchUp as you need to tweak that model to be really good - if you care about the quality at all.

I do not think that the free version made any "harm" to SketchUp. In fact, the free version was that made it well known finally and one of the most used 3D modelling software in the world which resulted many-many 3rd party developers to (also) develop tools for SU (exporters for their products, built in stuff etc.), make skp or collada or any other native SU generated file types usable in their applications - even plugin developers would not care that much (in fact, many of the authors on our forums do not even have the pro version).

Also, if there is not the free version, I would not be here either. I had not even heard of SU before Google released the free version. What a loss would it be!

Alan Fraser · 6 Mar 2012, 07:56

I wouldn't give any credence to this rumour either. As far as I can see, the only reason that Dassault would bother to buy SketchUp would be to kill it off. They have their own version...3DVIA...complete with their own version of the 3D Warehouse (Link ). 3DVIA also uses their own 3DXML format as its primary form, which I'm sure they would want to retain.
The only use they would have for SU would be to cannibalise some of its more useful and user-friendly features before casting it adrift.

As a side issue, I'm not certain about the continued love affair between SU and Google Earth, at least in the long term. We've already seen on these forums a number of mapping softwares that use auto-generated 3D buildings of entire city districts. It's still in its infancy, but the results are very impressive and almost certain to get better and more affordable. Long term it's difficult to see how laboriously building cities by hand could possibly keep up, however enthusiastic the userbase of contributors or the usefulness of apps like Building Maker. I mean, much of the aerial data on GE is already almost a decade out of date.
Building Maker itself is really only of any use where you have the 4 different Iso views available; and frankly these are almost as scarce as the areas covered by the auto-generating systems. There are only 4 available locations in the entire British Isles...and even London isn't one of them.

Of course, as Gaius points out, to produce really good results of 3D buildings on GE, you need SU anyway; but this is really a pro or semi-pro architectural use of SketchUp...not the mass-effect, populate-the-globe use of SU that Google originally envisaged.

jason_maranto · 6 Mar 2012, 12:01

@gaieus said:

That's nonsense. Do you know how extremely few places BM is available? Also, a good BM workflow also incorporates SketchUp as you need to tweak that model to be really good - if you care about the quality at all.

I do not think that the free version made any "harm" to SketchUp. In fact, the free version was that made it well known finally and one of the most used 3D modelling software in the world which resulted many-many 3rd party developers to (also) develop tools for SU (exporters for their products, built in stuff etc.), make skp or collada or any other native SU generated file types usable in their applications - even plugin developers would not care that much (in fact, many of the authors on our forums do not even have the pro version).

I think you may be misreading what I have said -- Building Maker is a better near-term fit to the purposes Google had with SketchUp... they could easily part with SketchUp at this point and still be able to work towards their goals.

I never said the free version did any harm, but certainly the development has been primarily geared toward GE application -- which has hindered (IMO) SketchUps potential development towards a better/more complete modeling package. So while I'm not saying the free version has done any harm, Google have not proven to be particularly good at managing further development of an existing package which had great potential.

In short, Google's goals/vision for SketchUp and my own do not match... and based on what I have read over the last several years here that is true for a good many users (probably more than the majority of even free version users).

My point was simply that I would care as much about the free version disappearing as I would if Maya or 3DS Max were to disappear -- I don't use it, so why would I care? My only motivation for caring would be the concern over how it might effect future development of software I own and use.

Now I have two options, I can choose to move on from SketchUp (which I have been tempted to do) -- or I can hope that development will regain a focus on tools for professionals. I went through a similar problem with Corel Painter, which for several version catered to hobbyist photographers... I was severely annoyed. However when they realized how ill-informed that choice of directions was they returned the focus to developing tools for professional artists (and it shows in version 12). Therefor my faith in Painter is now restored.

Also it should be said that free version users can move on from SketchUp much more easily than I can since they have far less invested than I (or any other Pro version users) do -- there are alot of free packages out there and I imagine if SketchUp were to become pay-only some users would upgrade, but most would simply move on to the next free package that suited them.

Best,
Jason.

Gaieus · 6 Mar 2012, 12:14

Maybe I did misread but I still have to contradict. Just a couple of tools that have been created/implemented by the developers since it's been Google and that has nothing to do with GE (and the majority of which is for the Pro users only):

sketchy styles (not as if I used them a lot but there are people who do) and accompanying Style Builder (for Pro users only)
LayOut (again, Pro only)
Dynamic componants (Pro only)
Revamped Camera tools (Pro only)
Solid tools (Pro only)
Fixing the shadow bug
Considerable speed improvement (with rewriting the whole rendering engine) from 7.0 to 7.1
Lately, during a "simple" maintenance release, revamping the collada exporter in favour of users trying to export into 3rd party apps (not GE - that used to work fine)
Probably there is not a single user who would exploit all these tools (to be honest, apart from a couple of occasions when I need to export to some other formats, I hardly use ny of the "Pro" tools).

And I have to agree with Alan: any change in the "owner" would just bring the risk that the only real reason is to "shelve" SU and kill a competitor.

andybot · 6 Mar 2012, 12:20

@jason_maranto said:

Also it should be said that free version users can move on from SketchUp much more easily than I can since they have far less invested than I (or any other Pro version users) do -- there are alot of free packages out there and I imagine if SketchUp were to become pay-only some users would upgrade, but most would simply move on to the next free package that suited them.

Jason - you keep discounting the value of SU free version. I would pay for the software in a heartbeat as it is essential to my workflow. But it's free and the uses I have only require the free version. Why would I pay for things I don't need? Just because you bought it doesn't mean others don't value it too.

jason_maranto · 6 Mar 2012, 12:26

@andybot said:

Jason - you keep discounting the value of SU free version. I would pay for the software in a heartbeat as it is essential to my workflow. But it's free and the uses I have only require the free version. Why would I pay for things I don't need? Just because you bought it doesn't mean others don't value it too.

You have made my point for me -- you are exactly the type of user that would make it a wise decision for SketchUp to become pay only (most likely with a tiered approach). You use the free version because you can get away with using the free version... if you could not then you would be forced to either financially support the software or move on. I imagine in your case you are tied to SketchUp partially because you own other software that needs SketchUp to function (V-Ray for SketchUp).

Other users who are not so financially tied to SketchUp could easily move onto other packages, of which there are many to choose from.

Best,
Jason.

jason_maranto · 6 Mar 2012, 12:34

Alot of those features were already in the works before Google purchased SketchUp -- and to be perfectly honest those features are a pittance when compared to the features which have been added to packages like Modo in the same timeframe. But to put it into perspective I have used and do use all of those tools.

The idea of killing off a competitor is certianly fine so long as you can reasonably ensure that the displaced users will become yours -- which is far from certain in this scenario... any other approach would be bad business. Giving up over a million potential users would be absolutely absurd.

Best,
Jason.

andybot · 6 Mar 2012, 13:17

I dunno Jason. I get the feeling you're annoyed about having a free user base. Like Csaba, I wouldn't have "found" Sketchup if it weren't free. This is Google's marketing strategy, so why pine for some tiered approach? I'm sure that would be changed with a different ownership.

Gaieus · 6 Mar 2012, 13:20

I am not even (just) referring to the fact that I would not have found it but even as a Pro user, I believe that I benefit from the millions of the free users as there would not be so much development by 3rd party programmers if the SU market would be as tiny as in the @Last days.