Did a God or Gods create the universe? EDITED
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You keep talking on this pointless conversation.
Avoiding answer my comments or some other's ones.
Still egoists all of you, still believing in your personal god.
Nothing weird here. Just predictable.
But when we're talking about God, I really don't care about how your personal god looks like. It's you and You only.
Especially Pete, who seems that he's the only true believer here. lol
But remember, we're trying to communicate. We're just human beings, alone, under a vast world.
My experience shows me that some architects and constructors are the most egoists I've met.
The equivalent of the great architect of the universe or something similar.
Good luck to all of us. -
@michaliszissiou said:
You keep talking on this pointless conversation.
Avoiding answer my comments or some other's ones.
Still egoists all of you, still believing in your personal god.
Nothing weird here. Just predictable.
But when we're talking about God, I really don't care about how your personal god looks like. It's you and You only.
Especially Pete, who seems that he's the only true believer here. lol
But remember, we're trying to communicate. We're just human beings, alone, under a vast world.
My experience shows me that some architects and constructors are the most egoists I've met.
The equivalent of the great architect of the universe or something similar.
Good luck to all of us.I'm not quite sure who you're talking to or what you're saying.
-Brodie
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
Especially Pete, who seems that he's the only true believer here.
..erm, you mean non-believer right?
Actually I may be the most stubborn and the least willing to listen.
In my defense I can also say that I was once a born again Christian openly 'making fishers of men' for many years with a very radical non-denominational bunch called the 'Church of Christ', I also studied the bible for seven years while with them, so I honestly can say I came to my own conclusions and do not make my stances on ignorance.
Was that in Texas as well Pete? As in the ICOC?
-Brodie
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@solo said:
No, Johannesburg, but yes ICOC JHB.
Ah, I'm a member of the ICOC actually. It certainly did screw up a lot of folks back then (not so long ago). The church where I was converted was actually in a pretty good place but I've heard lots of bad stories and experienced some degree of that. Would you say the...rigidity, shall we say, contributed to your becoming an atheist or was it something else?
-Brodie
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@solo said:
In my defense I can also say that I was once a born again Christian openly 'making fishers of men' for many years with a very radical non-denominational bunch called the 'Church of Christ', I also studied the bible for seven years while with them, so I honestly can say I came to my own conclusions and do not make my stances on ignorance.
‘Solo’, something is wrong!
Who was TRULY “born again”, that person can not lose the faith/trust in God, can not lose salvation of God...! It is impossible something like that...! -
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@unknownuser said:
‘Solo’, something is wrong!
Who was TRULY “born again”, that person can not lose the faith/trust in God, can not lose salvation of God...! It is impossible something like that...!Oh... Cornel....
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@solo said:
Hmmm, there were many factors, one was the studying of the bible, just seemed that they were interpreting it to suit their flavor, I had many questions that I felt was intercepted with lame and unfulfilled answers. Then there was the tithe, taken very seriously to a point that it felt more like a tax and them like spiritual mafia.
The whole 'making fishers of men' thing also got too much after a while as we were required to do some real tough stuff like administering to total strangers in malls, outside nightclubs on Saturday nights, invite total strangers to study the bible with a push/goal to get them baptized and into the 'flock' (more like tithe paying members)
It all seemed like one huge scam.I was raised a baptist, grandfather was a reverend and my dad in South Africa is now a preacher in his church, so coming to my convictions was difficult and did cause many heartaches within my family. I am much happier now and totally convinced I am correct, almost like being blind and suddenly seeing (stealing a quote from the bible), the fog of Christianity can be blinding but once you see the truth you feel silly for actually believing all that crap.
Very interesting. I find it fascinating that we've had a number of similar experiences and, in fact, seem to have a lot of the same opinions on what's wrong in the church, and yet we've reached such different conclusions. I've seen that same issue of people having questions which have gone unanswered - particularly before they're Christians. I haven't personally experienced the pressure to tithe although I've heard that was an issue in the past in many ICOC churches. I believe evangelism is important but I agree that the focus and method is flawed and haven't participated in the sorts of things you're referring to.
So we have many of the same frustrations. And I did go through a period not long ago where I struggled with a lot of questions. But these weren't so much questions about God, but rather about the church. Why do you suppose we faced similar situations and came to question different things because of them?
I do wonder what you're referring to regarding interpreting the Bible to suit their flavor. Can you explain that a bit more?
How is your family with your decision at this point?
-Brodie
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Those who are saved (“born again”), are given by the Father in the care of His Son, the Lord, and He said:
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” (John 6:37-39)The Lord Jesus Christ does not lose any, because He DOES the will of the Father!
‘Solo’, it means that you actually have no a clear definition of expresion “BORN AGAIN”..., in a biblical way!
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When architects have time to waste on arguing the merits (pro and con) of religion you can tell the economy has not yet turned the corner.
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@unknownuser said:
Those who are saved (“born again”), are given by the Father in the care of His Son, the Lord, and He said:
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” (John 6:37-39)The Lord Jesus Christ does not lose any, because He DOES the will of the Father!
‘Solo’, it means that you actually have no a clear definition of expresion “BORN AGAIN”..., in a biblical way!
In what sense is this helpful, Cornel? You're talking about a doctrine which many Christians don't even buy into. In what sense could it possibly be worth bringing up to someone who doesn't believe in God, much less salvation?
-Brodie
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@unknownuser said:
The Lord Jesus Christ does not lose any, because He DOES the will of the Father!
Riight...Always found the trinity a very mindboggling concept. All are one but all are separate. If we think in the terms of the trinity then the father's will should be the same as the son's and the holy ghost's!? If not, then they aren't one and if that is the case, then Christianity isn't the much touted monotheistic religions it thinks it is.
As we've already saw, contradictions are not a problem for religion. -
Cornel please try another book, I suggest an encyclopedia for a start.
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@ 'Marian'.
God is One Entity, that manifests, for your easy understanding, in 3 ‘Persons’: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All of Them have the same ‘attributes’, which are highlighted in a different way, from One to Other. Otherwise, you will not understand why God is, for example, love and justice… -
Pete,
I see. So these sorts of issues were sort of a catalyst for you to begin raising your own questions and those questions lead you down a road that eventually resulted in you questioning the very existence of God?
At times you seem very... adamant in your opinion? Do you find any parallels to how you used to espouse your position as a Christian with how you advocate them as an atheist?
-Brodie
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@solo said:
Good observation, I am not sure how to answer this. I guess I had to have been a very staunch believer to hang around nightclubs in dodgy areas at midnight preaching to the drunk and disorderly, to spend more time at church and with strangers than with my family. Maybe I have one of those extreme personalities that is either 100% or nothing, I dunno, however I do know that I was wrong, very wrong and see the danger in such organizations. I am not calling all Christian denominations or non denominations dangerous or cult like, but I will say the ICOC is by my own experiences.
I'd probably say understandably so. I've heard stories which sound much worse than your experience by folks who are actually still in the church. I think you'd be happy to know that much of what you're expressing has been rectified by people not unlike ourselves who saw the unbiblical practices which were being implemented. There are always frustrations but at least the frustrations now are not those of the past or I'd have found a different church some time ago. Of course, I understand that is little consolation at this point and at any rate, from your perspective those practices ended up leading you to the truth.
I do find the evangelistic sort of parallel interesting though (and certainly not limited to just yourself). On one hand there are a group of people who feel they have the truth which leads to a more fulfilling and consistent life, aligned with how the world really functions. There's a very humanitarian sort of desire to share that knowledge with others that they, too, might know the truth. And on the other hand you have the Christians, in the same boat. We all seem to wrestle with the dichotomy of how to express our beliefs in such a way as to be convincing and convicting without sounding irrational and turning folks off completely. That's the impression I'm coming to at least. Something I'm not sure I've every really considered before.
How would you express your...framework - the lens through which you view your experiences. As a belief? A worldview?...
-Brodie
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Hi Guys sorry for my poor English first. I read most of the comments and saw things mean like "I read smtg. in bible thats false this church say this other say that ...." and now I become atheist.What about thinking maybe it is corrupted!What about God send a new messenger.Is that so easy for you guys thinking like "if there is no God that proove my idea I live how I want to live believers not and now all we dead" if there is we will see what happens.Sorry for English again I hope you understand me
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@unknownuser said:
@solo said:
Regurgitate your versus somewhere else, the adults are talking now.
Hello, adults!
To be “born again” is not enough tu believe in God, but you have tu REPENT, with sincere sorrow for past, and with grateful devotion for the future...!Define repent.
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