Why You Should NOT Vaccinate Your Children
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There's a number of reasons why you should vaccinate your children for a number of deceases... (measles, smallpox, polio etc...)
However, I do understand why people shouldn't just vaccinate for the H1N1 virus, unless their children are in a certain risk group... -
@khai said:
@remus said:
@unknownuser said:
I know that many thousands of people are under the illusion that vaccinations actually do something.
I guess smallpox and polio just decided it was time for a holiday then.
don't forget whooping cough...
Yellow Fever, and any number of other tropical diseases that used to be rampant in the American South, have been almost completely eradicated here thanks to vaccines.
It is obviously your choice as a parent to decide what medical care your children receive, but at the same time with strong evidence pointing to the benefits of modern medicine, one must weigh the risk and responsibilities as a parent against whether or not an antibiotic or vaccine will hurt or help more than the potential infection will.
I for one have had a couple of serious issues as a child that, but for antibiotics, would likely not have survived.
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Of course your children have grown up without catching any of the listed diseases, they were largely erradicated from the majority of west through rigorous programs of vaccination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox#Eradication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio#Eradication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles#Prevention
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps#PreventionThere is no doubt that vaccination works.
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
through rigorous programs of vaccination.
It looks very convincing but if you apply this filter " circumstance, theory and corporate postulation." you will find there is no meat there at all.
ah. your one of those. no matter what evidence is presented, you'll dismiss it out of hand. sorry, not playing that game.
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@unknownuser said:
Following the widespread use of poliovirus vaccine in the mid-1950s, the incidence of poliomyelitis declined dramatically in many industrialized countries. A global effort to eradicate polio began in 1988, led by the World Health Organization, UNICEF, and The Rotary Foundation.[68] These efforts have reduced the number of annual diagnosed cases by 99%; from an estimated 350,000 cases in 1988 to 1,310 cases in 2007
Whats circumstantial/theoretical abut that?
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nothing remus, nothing.
bravo.
pav
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post about stinkie, remus posed a question, i gave a response base on his post.
yeah i'm up for a beer.
pav
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sorry stinkie, i was thinking you ment aye? not aye!
i have alsready had a beer, i've got one lined up for you stinkie.
pav
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I am quite 'on my toes' when the next pandemia (bird flue, swine flue etc...) is announced as I often have the idea the pharma industry easily creates hysteria for commercial gain.
On the other hand, I do think that modern medicin has a great value.
I won't be the only one to say this, but without the availability of antibiotics, I would probably have died about 3 times already.
So saying NOT to vaccinate your children sounds as crazy to me as Jehovas' witnesses not being allowed to undergo surgery.Hysteria!
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@pav_3j said:
post about stinkie, remus posed a question, i gave a response base on his post.
I know, and I agreed with ya.
Edit: Bruce, it seems far more logical to conclude that the regions mentioned saw the number of infections decline due to a single thing they have in common, rather than due to a number of things that set them apart.
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My children have been vaccinated for most things but at the time that the German Measles Vacine was instituted I was in a differetn frame of mind. Having done a lot of research I did not want my children to receive vaccines for that.
I had to get an affidavit signed by a notary which I presented to the schools to indicate that I am an objector.I don't know how the US can prevent children from going to public school without vaccination because I have seen some stats that indicate that a minor proportion of children are vaccinated in the US as compared to Canada because in the US they vaccinations must be paid for or face long line ups in miserable clinics. But I don't really know about that for sure.
I do know that Salk said that by the time his vaccine was developed polio was already waning and he is unsure whether his vaccine did anything at all.
In 1977 Salk testified that he felt that the vaccines from 1961 on were largely responsible for another Polio outbreak.Re the German Measles vaccine, the 2% probability that one will get serious debilitationg side effects from German Measleses is equivalbent to the 2% probablity of serious side effects from the vaccine itslef. In Japan the change in vaccination schedule so that infants no longer recieved their first vaccines until the age of 2 caused the incidience of crib death to plummet. Many viruses have been found in live vaciine. Crones disease in adulthood has now been linked to elements in childhood vaccines. Some Vaccines until the late 1990s contained 41% mercury and may be linked to the increase in ADD, Autisem etc. Even when vaccines work, the result is a weakened immune system that never learns how to fight disease on its own. I am not sure, were I to have a baby today, if I would have the assurance to fight the system and really be convinced that vaccines are to be avoided. But I sure would do a lot of research. Take a look at this site here for instance: http://www.vaclib.org/sites/debate/web2.html
I do think we may have been sold a bill of goods and we are so confident that anyone who thinkgs differently is a kook, but you owe it to yourself to really dig through the learned arguments on both sides before you are confident enoght to rebuke a different outlook -
@unknownuser said:
That is understandable and further the WHO has its own ambiguous definition for Pandemic. The severity of the disease is not part of the measure
Pandemic has nothing to do with the severity of an illness it is to do with the geographical and demographic spread. It seems that stupidity is rapidly approaching pandemic status.
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@tim said:
@unknownuser said:
That is understandable and further the WHO has its own ambiguous definition for Pandemic. The severity of the disease is not part of the measure
Pandemic has nothing to do with the severity of an illness it is to do with the geographical and demographic spread.
Isnt that what bruce just said? (without the part about geographic and demographic measures.)
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You know. What'sinteresting (I've had a beer too and slurring wordsitseems) about this forum. A lot of people with a rapport about a particular technical interest, but holding the gambit of views otherwise. Much better conversations than going to sites where everyone agrees with you (or going to sites just so you can troll for those who don't).
I don't have a blind faith in science but I tend to see it as a self-rectifying system (like democracy should be) and it's accessible to criticism. I think it has done better than other systems of faith in debunking itself over time. Thatsall for now...
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I'm not against vaccinations. Not a parent yet, but when I am, I will find it very hard to agree to having my child vaccinated against every disease that the NHS insist pose a significant threat in a first world country. I know plenty of people whose kids have had few or no vaccinations. Far from being at deaths door, these kids all seem healthy and are rarely ill.
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@unknownuser said:
I think that medicine and drugs are much like religion...
Medicine is quite the opposite of religion. Medicine, in opposition to religion, is based on evidence.
@unknownuser said:
I am saying clearly that my children and their children and many others I know in our community have refrained from vaccinations..they have grown up healthy, happy and in large, devoid of the diseases listed in this thread.
What is happening here is that you are sponging on other people's vaccinations. Between you and disease is a thick wall of people in their senses that are vaccinated. If the antivaccine group grows much larger, then the spread of epidemics will become much easier-as has already happened with measles in some countries.
Anssi
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I love how Science and Medicine are always used synonymously.
Let's not forget we are talking about viral and infectious disease, which will by nature continue to mutate. Each mutation is one mutation away from being deadly or from becoming no longer dangerous. Virus such as influenza have historically run their course and mutated to the point of ineffectiveness with or without vaccine intervention. A vaccine may be effective for a particular strain, or it may do more harm than good.
I for one see no need to give a child four doses of Hepatitis B vaccine before they're 18 months old when one can only get the disease through blood or sexual contact, yet it's on the CDC immunity list and every child in the US receives this vaccine. Or lining the little girls up in Texas for their mandatory HPV vaccine because the Gov. Rick Parry decides to pass an executive order mandating the vaccine for all school girls, which was produced by Merck which he received campaign contributions from.
Let's not also forget who is making the vaccines.....for profit. Look at the track record of any of the major drug companies. Look at Merck, the largest pharmaceutical company...who makes Gardisil (http://www.naturalnews.com/025613.html), which the doctors keep insisting that I give to my daughters. They previously falsified information to get the drug Vioxx passed by the FDA, only to have it recalled after killing people. Or how about Bayer corporation who was caught knowingly selling a vaccine that was contaminated with HIV. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs&feature=player_embedded
Can anti-venom save you from a snake bite...will antibiotics save your life if you have a rampant infection...of course. Doesn't mean that preemptive medicine is always the best procedure and best for your immune system.
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@unknownuser said:
... One stat I found most interesting was the fact that of the 350 million US residents only just over 150 million have taken a flu shot. The 200 million that did not commit to a flue vaccination are showing better stats than the group of 150 million that did.
It is the weakest and most susceptible who get the shots, and not the healthiest. Therefore a raw comparison of those two broader groups rather than of similar groups (say 70 year olds that did vs 70 year olds that didn't) tells you very little if anything.
@unknownuser said:
... the WHO has its own ambiguous definition for Pandemic. The severity of the disease is not part of the measure although there announcements have always caused a great hue and cry followed by warnings and insidious promotion of a pharmacological remedy. That’s free enterprise…..not medicine.
On July 11th the WHO declared their first Pandemic alert in 41 years. This site might help you understand the level of ambiguity in their declarations: http://www.upmc-biosecurity.org/website/focus/2009_H1N1_updates/isssue_briefs/2009-06-11-A_Closer_Look_WHO_Pan_Declaration.html
Note that at all levels it is based on the influenza virus, therefore the severity of the disease at a baseline is significant.
@unknownuser said:
...Of 350 million US citizens only 150 have ever had a flu shot so I guess the other 200 million are sponges like me...
I don't believe he wasn't referring to a flu shot as much as to the broader vaccinations like for the Measles, ChickenPox, and the like. Flu shots are given annually to some people because the influenza viruses tend to differ significantly through mutations. But your children are much less likely to get Measles if there is lower exposure from other children.
The principal is similar to computer viruses -- somebody without virus protection benefits from those that do because they aren't as likely to receive an infected email...
The problem many have with some people's children opting out is that there are children with severe immune system problems, or allergies that can not have the vaccine. They are more likely to be exposed through children that have not had the vaccine who can carry and spread the diseases. So while the unvaccinated children might be generally healthy, they can also endanger the lives of others as carriers that those who have had the vaccine cannot do.
-- William (no kids...)
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The logic of the whole thing is pretty straightforward, though. Lots of unvaccinated people = lots of people who could potentially get the disease in question. Lots of vaccinated people = much fewer people who could potentially get the disease in queston.
Oh, sorry, i forgot vaccines are unproven.
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