What has cost over 65,000 lives and $1trillion?
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@mike lucey said:
I recently read that the Iraq war will have cost 65000 (60,000 Iraqis and 5,000 Americans) lives and $1,000,000,000,000!(Edited: Added 000)
Can anyone tell me what has this huge price delivered? I'm am not trying to be smart, just pragmatic!
I genuinely cannot see that much has been gained that could not have been gained with far less cost in human loss and wasted money on bombs etc.
Surely, if these human resources and cash were put to use more productively in a non military use the human race as a whole would be much further down to road to World Peace and resource sustainability?
Any thoughts?
Mike
It changed the leaders. The only thing war changes/corrects is who is in charge. So now maybe another 5000 people will not be gassed by some asshole. And I guarantee you if you lived in a country where the leader used poison gas on your city, you would be damn glad someone came. Is it perfect, nope, long way from being perfect, however they now have another chance.
Ken
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@unknownuser said:
It changed the leaders. The only thing war changes/corrects is who is in charge. So now maybe another 5000 people will not be gassed by some asshole. And I guarantee you if you lived in a country where the leader used poison gas on your city, you would be damn glad someone came. Is it perfect, nope, long way from being perfect, however they now have another chance.
Ken
seriously man.. do you really believe the american military was in iraq to help iraqis?? jfc dude..
millions dead at the hand of some assholes
where's america at?
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Mike, my comment was jest, you know my opinion.
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Gee, Mike.
First you put out the debate about Religion then the War in Iraq? What are you doing????
Either bumping up traffic for an upcoming SCF advertising drive or 'member cleansing'; one of the two....
No Rich, NO!!!! Please don't hit the suspend button!!!!!
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@unknownuser said:
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
--Johann Wolfgang von GoetheI'm glad people (the most off) understands the truth. Good start for better in 2012...
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Your figure was apparently a little low, Mike.
IBC -
@utiler said:
They got what they wanted, Mike.
OIL.
To me it's as obvious as the nose on your face....
i second that. oil and arms industries products wholesale at least.
so much money invested in arms industries. they need to sell them.
a peaceful world wouldn't be in their first lines of preferences list.
oil obviously what makes industries still running and alive.
either way, they all come to a simple conclusion.
profitable things in capitalistic point of view. etc.for some reason, i think even though the US didn't come to europe i do believe european eventually will get what they'd wanted by themselves. most of the critical operations were done by British commandos quite well. as far as i know, the British commando known as SAS today still remains being the prototype for other special or elite troops forces development.
here's a simple word of it; none of those special or elite forces but mostly developed based on the British commando/SAS. not even navy seals or whatever that is.
(edit) and no operation will succeed if the British weren't there first behind enemy lines doing their things in their special ops.
even the OSS before it becomes CIA was developed by sending operatives to learn from the British. -
Mmmmm, getting lively ..... as it should. Those cartoons tell the true story.
I did not intend my post as an American bashing post. The people that I would like to bash have no allegiance to any country only to controlling power.
Many say the answer is OIL. I agree but only to a certain extent. OIL is only the commodity that is being used currently by the fist of power. When that runs out, and run out it will, the power brokers will identify another commodity to corner the market on and things will go on as usual.
I have no doubts that when oil runs out there will be some kind of energy to replace it. I believe alternative sources would be here now if sufficient investment was input but this is not happening as the power brokers have not yet figured out how to 'corner the market' on the alternatives! I've read articles about personal back yard electricity generation plants in the future ..... now that must scare the hell out of the PBs.
Maybe there is little or nothing that people can do about this situation but at least they can informed and knowledgeable about what is happening. This is not liked by the power brokers as they thrive on the general ignorance of the populous. That's why they never push thing quite too far in the West as to cause a total revolution. That is the last thing they want.
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here are some other's opinions on that matter
not to mention about the new complete chaos of sectarians clashes, etc.
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@mike lucey said:
I did not intend my post as an American bashing post.
sht, i'll bash these 'americans' all day long without thinking twice.. they've got their head^butt so far from the propaganda of "you're an american! you're the best! be proud!" that they don't want to leave the little comfy space in their brain and actually start questioning who/what is feeding them this crap.. americans are supposed to continually question and challenge our govt .. it is our single most important duty as americans to do so.. you know, the whole checks&balances thing you might of heard about in school? that responsibility is on you or the whole thing falls apart and gets overrun by crooks.. and i hate to say it but we're having one serious infestation of crooks at the moment..
wake up.. do your part..
or don't
@unknownuser said:
I believe alternative sources would be here now if sufficient investment was input but this is not happening as the power brokers have not yet figured out how to 'corner the market' on the alternatives!
yeah, it must be tough for the think tanks on this one..
@unknownuser said:
"-Now how are we supposed to sell a bucket of wind to this guy for a hundred bucks and make him feel happy about it??
-Not sure.. I mean these people are pretty damn ignorant so there must be a way
-Lets do a test run with water
-Ok
-Ha! They're actually buying the stuff for unheard of prices
-Cool.. A few more reality TV shows and terrorist threats.. they're almost ready to buy wind!
-Yay!" -
Plausible explanation we find in this book:
“ARMAGEDDON, OIL AND TERROR – What the Bible says about the future of America, the Middle East and the end of Western Civilisation”, by John F. Walvoord with Mark Hitchcock.Until Armageddon, there will be no peace on Earth, says the Bible!
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Well, it was "oil", it was "changing government", but if that numbers are true, then it must be more to worth it.
And what's more is to show USA's power... it's all about intimidation. I believe that all conflicts that USA started were not for the reason they claimed, but more for showing their capabilities, test the new weaponry and several other similar reasons. Kind of a new roman empire... yes, I am a bit radical, but the image with "the mighty America that saves us from communism and tyranny" seems to dramatic. There is no dragon with seven heads and the prince on white horse here...Excuse me if I don't believe in USA's good intentions, but rather in a political interest.
So, as a conclusion, I think that $trillion were well spent. You can't intimidate a whole planet by investing in health, education, good life of the citizens, but surely you can when you go at war and let disaster behind.
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@unknownuser said:
Well, it was "oil", it was "changing government", but if that numbers are true, then it must be more to worth it...
don't forget other main thing, sales and marketing point for arms industries.
they wont make it if those any military forces didn't see any need to sign up a contract for purchasing more and more arms for war over and again. the more the merrier...
the more profit to make
and the field probably well prepared for another harvest to come
The West and its plans to force regime change in many countries
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"NEW YORK, December 23, 2011/PRNewswire via African Press Organization (APO)/ -- A federal district court in Manhattan yesterday entered a historic ruling that reveals new facts about Iran's support of al Qaeda in the 9/11 attacks. U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels ruled yesterday that Iran and Hezbollah materially and directly supported al Qaeda in the September 11, 2001 attacks and are legally responsible for damages to hundreds of family members of 9/11 victims who are plaintiffs in the case."
and just today "U.S. announces $10 million bounty on key al-Qaeda financier eluding a six-year capture in Iran" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077859/Yasin-al-Suri-US-announce-10m-bounty-key-al-Qaeda-financier-Iran.html
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Let's see...
We spend Billions on two wars, Billions more on rebuilding those countries, hundreds of millions on bribes and payouts to people in those countries, and we slashed taxes.
Someone obviously didn't take (or got a failing grade in) Home Economics in High School. More money out than money coming in = debt. No reason it shouldn't be obvious why our economy is in the outhouse and the government is out of money.
@unknownuser said:
Re: What has cost over 65,000 lives and $1trillion?
Postby Krisidious on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:10 pm
30,000,000 free people? that has a cost too high? I swear if the world were faced with Hitler or an Imperial Japan or a Soviet Union today you people wouldn't have the balls to do anything but bend over... I fear for the future when man will not give up life and fortune for the liberty of his fellow man. quite a selfish stance for a supposedly giving time a of year.don't bother replying I won't be back to this thread to read them. I'm sure this will soon devolve into the America bashing party it normally does... all the while those same individuals who live under the protection of and are provided the glorious freedoms it offers therein.
I'll leave you with this thought... where would you be today and where will you be tomorrow if there was not an America? if you're British you'd be speaking German, if you live in the eastern part of the world you'd be speaking Japanese... who will fight the dictators when America is gone? who fights them now? who lays their blood and treasure at the altar of freedom?
1 China 1,339,724,852
2 India 1,210,193,422
3 United States 312,810,000
4 Indonesia 237,641,326
5 Brazil 190,755,799
6 Pakistan 178,143,000
7 Nigeria 162,471,000
8 Russia 142,914,136
9 Bangladesh 142,319,000
10 Japan 127,760,000the top ten most populous countries in the world? tell me who? tell me who fights for liberty and how much of your time do you spend bitching about what these nations do? none? I swear it's like you're on the other side.
all I can say is I hope the world is not full of people like you when you live under the rule of a murderous dictator. nevermind... it's like talkin to a wall...
Respectfully sir I disagree. Saying what you've said equates those that disagree here to blind, spineless lotus-eaters. History does not make this war right. Being an American does not mean that Might Makes Right, or that bombing some faraway country makes it possible for me to speak my mind. Free speech was written into the constitution well before now, and our soldiers fighting overseas will not change that. Being an American does not mean that we are not allowed to question bombing some poor country, or point out how stupid an idea it was, or that the cost is too high, that it wasn't worth it, and that we very likely went in under false pretenses. Your insinuation that we shouldn't complain puts you dangerously close to the "other side" yourself, like countries where dissent or disagreement is verboten, punishable and stifled. You cannot create a straw man argument by rewriting history as a comparison. WWII is history, and I am completely ashamed of "Americans" who drag out the old saw "if it wasn't for us in WWII you'd be speaking German..." We were not the only country fighting and losing thousands of lives against Japan or Germany; to claim otherwise and ignore those sacrifices is arrogant and ugly.
I prefer my heroes quiet and unassuming, not schoolyard bullies shouting how tough they are.
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@escapeartist said:
I prefer my heroes quiet and unassuming, not schoolyard bullies shouting how tough they are.
Merry Christmas.
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sigh.....Kris, surely you are pulling our leg.
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@escapeartist said:
More money out than money coming in = debt. No reason it shouldn't be obvious why our economy is in the outhouse and the government is out of money.
actually, we're in debt because of the opposite.. more money coming in than going out.. (i.e.- we owe more than what's available ('we' being everyone.. not just the u.s. or the usgovt.)).. under the current monetary system, it's impossible for us not to be in debt.. (and by impossible, i mean impossible)
@sepo said:
sigh.....Kris, surely you are pulling our leg.
unfortunately, no, he's not..
this is half the country.(and by half, well, i'm just making that number up.. i'd guess half is a safe number though)
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@unknownuser said:
unfortunately, no, he's not..
No doubt about that: http://twitter.com/Kaptain_Amerika/#/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fkkn5zlj
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I love a centrist!
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