Osama bin Laden's hideout in Abbottabad Pakistan
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@srx said:
@unknownuser said:
Damn the best CIA agent ever!
..Oh, he does have more suites!
This is Zbigniew Brzezinski on the left (just in case one couldn't identify)
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The modern world is still filled with leaders that organize their people to commit genocide against innocent civilians. One by one they must be stopped.
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For all the military nerds out there:
The secret drone that we've known for some years as the "Beast of Kandahar" may have been involved in the raid, providing the live feed to the white house.
Plus a unknown type of stealth helicopter was also used in the incursion!ahhh, there is nothing like some black ops rumors...
for more info - http://defensetech.org/
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I think all this stuff from USA is obscene.
USA, well, not USA, but their actual leaders, are playing a nasty game.
Hiding information, showing what they like, saying or not saying ...
And the whole world watching, while Libya burns, Syria burns ...
Indeed something big must be going on.
I feel we are completely lost as we, human beings, used to be when Heaven, the Sky, had a meaning for all of us.
Now Heaven, the Sky, has been kidnapped for all of us. And only lasts the Media.
So better get under.
On oneself.
To get the root again.NO OTHER WAY.-
(my thought, obviously)
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I have to repeat this:
@unknownuser said:
I think all this stuff from USA is obscene.
USA, well, not USA, but their actual leaders, are playing a nasty game.
Hiding information, showing what they like, saying or not saying ...
And the whole world watching, while Libya burns, Syria burns ...
Indeed something big must be going on.
I feel we are completely lost as we, human beings, used to be when Heaven, the Sky, had a meaning for all of us.
Now Heaven, the Sky, has been kidnapped for all of us. And only lasts the Media.
So better get under.
On oneself.
To get the root again.NO OTHER WAY.-
(my thought, obviously)Thank you for this words
...but how to escape from this:
http://www.globalarchitectsguide.com/library/Grdelica-train-bombing.phpDo you think Osama did this?
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@unknownuser said:
The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was NATO's military operation against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. The strikes lasted from March 24, 1999 to June 10, 1999.
The bombing of Yugoslavia was intended to stop the alleged Yugoslav military operation Operation Horseshoe and to keep the Yugoslav army from repeating the atrocities committed in Bosnia.
The NATO bombing marked the second major combat operation in its history, following the 1995 NATO bombing campaign in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
The bombings led to the withdrawal of Yugoslav forces from Kosovo, establishment of UNMIK, a UN mission in Kosovo and put an end to the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. The bombing campaign was criticized, especially for the number of civilian casualties that resulted from the bombing.
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@srx said:
Thank you for this words
Thanks srx ..._)...
I do not know about that. I can only talk about what happened in Madrid on 11 March 2004.
It was said that it was an action of the Islamic terrorists, not pointing directly to Bin Laden.
A judgement was made in my country but it could not be determined who planned it .
I think half of our nation do not believe that it was even a terrorist act from Islamic extremists, as they call them.
Now we know that the bombed trains were destroyed few days after the explosion, by our Government, making impossible a truthful investigation about what really had happened.
No one understands why that it was done.
I think we will go, soon in time, to another trial on both execrable actions.
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@unknownuser said:
Yet many civilian casualties were reported in the solely residential areas far beyond such targets, as well as in destroyed media homes, public transportation vehicles, hotels and clerical offices.
The bombing occurred at about 11.40 hours local time. An AGM-130 missile precision-guided munition released by a NATO F-15E Strike Eagle struck the centre of the bridge at the exact moment that the No. 393 passenger train, en route from Belgrade to Ristovac, was crossing the bridge. The missile struck the train, causing major damage, but did not destroy the bridge.
For your information - I didn't know about "THE WAR", until Nato bombs came. I was going to school when one night it started.
Do you think this civil train was accidentally hit by shooting at the bridge at the exact moment it was passing over it? The people in it led ordinary every day lives, like you do. They were not killed by some imagined terrorist, but by USA soldier with joystick in his hand.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6zKEUGsPCo
...and there is even a second shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou57RuvWtFg...and this is not the only example...
Suggestion: Listen to real people instead of media because you are victims too...except as you are agreeing with this killings.
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Last year I watched a show on PBS about drones and how they work, apparently they are controlled by the air force based in Southern California and Nevada, the guys/girls (yes there were women) that 'Pilot' them come to work, dress in a flight suit (compulsory as they are pilots even though they are in a room) and go on missions tens of thousand miles away, strike and kill people they are not even sure are enemies, then go home and have a normal family life totally detached from the emotions that go with their actions.
I dunno, but there is something so wrong with this.
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@unknownuser said:
The modern world is still filled with leaders that organize their people to commit genocide against innocent civilians. One by one they must be stopped.
I agree. Still, how they must be stopped, is another question. If at all possible, they ought to be carted off to The Hague, and tried for their crimes. When that isn't an option, and only then, more extreme measures should be taken. Executing them without trial après la lettre is a rather big no-no, certainly when done on the soil of a sovereign nation.
As for Yugoslavia ... the aforementioned bombings wouldn't have been necessary if we (and by 'we' I mean Europe) hadn't sat around with our thumbs up our asses for years on end.
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@honoluludesktop said:
The modern world is still filled with leaders that organize their people to commit genocide against innocent civilians. One by one they must be stopped.
@unknownuser said:
I agree. Still, how they must be stopped, is another question. If at all possible, they ought to be carted off to The Hague, and tried for their crimes. When that isn't an option, and only then, more extreme measures should be taken. Executing them without trial après la lettre is a rather big no-no, certainly when done on the soil of a sovereign nation.
As for Yugoslavia ... the aforementioned bombings wouldn't have been necessary if we (and by 'we' I mean Europe) hadn't sat around with our thumbs up our asses for years on end.
Nonsense. What utter rubbish. Do you not think that these people "who must be stopped" were not innocent civilians too at one point? If you take that attitude, you may as well just kill innocent people anyway. Who knows who they will eventually grow up to become?
The recent Serbian leaders tried in the Hague 'for war crimes' were simply doing whatever they did for their own people. For heavens sake, look what the British did in the Boer war! Is that an example we need to set? We are hypocrites! It's easy to forget how we marched into Iraq on a wing and a prayer (a bloody damn lie), shot and maimed innocent women and children in the name of western 'democracy'.
Can you not simply allow these countries people to decide for themselves, or are we once again, the west, be the police of the east? It's preposterous to even think that we can, but the liberal west haven't learnt one thing- as in the very recent case of Libya.
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@tfdesign said:
Do you not think that these people "who must be stopped" were not innocent civilians too at one point?
Er, yes, until they weren't anymore.
@tfdesign said:
If you take that attitude, you may as well just kill innocent people anyway. Who knows who they will eventually grow up to become?
Don't be daft.
@tfdesign said:
The recent Serbian leaders tried in the Hague 'for war crimes' were simply doing whatever they did for their own people.
Uh-huh. Whomever they did it for, is completely irrelevant. What they did, is what counts. You remember the incessant shelling of Sarajevo? A Serbian (!) friend of mine does. Like it was yesterday.
@tfdesign said:
Can you not simply allow these countries people to decide for themselves
There's a vast difference between letting them decide for themselves and allowing them to be slaughtered or oppressed.
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@unknownuser said:
I agree. Still, how they must be stopped, is another question. If at all possible, they ought to be carted off to The Hague, and tried for their crimes. When that isn't an option, and only then, more extreme measures should be taken. Executing them without trial après la lettre is a rather big no-no, certainly when done on the soil of a sovereign nation.
Exactly. Does such a person deserve the strictest penalty? Yes, probably. But a fair trial is not for his sake but for ours. Ours, the "rest" of those couple of billion people. We need to feel safe when knowing that we cannot be just hunted down for whatever reason without a fair trial.
@unknownuser said:
As for Yugoslavia ... the aforementioned bombings wouldn't have been necessary if we (and by 'we' I mean Europe) hadn't sat around with our thumbs up our asses for years on end.
Damn, I remember that. It was at our doorsteps.
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@gaieus said:
@unknownuser said:
As for Yugoslavia ... the aforementioned bombings wouldn't have been necessary if we (and by 'we' I mean Europe) hadn't sat around with our thumbs up our asses for years on end.
Damn, I remember that. It was at our doorsteps.
Yeah. Remember Srebrenica? "To deter by presence." Where's that "shakes head in disbelief" smiley when you need one?
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How ! Good question. I for one believe in social evolution. As societies evolved from isolated families, to tribes, to city states, to kingdoms, then into democratic nations, individual consciousness about "rights" evolve. Ultimately a ruler can only rule with the consent of his people. Oppression is eventually overcome. Idealistic? perhaps, but look at the Arab world today. Their tribal kingdoms are slowly coming to a end. Democratic nations may not be the final answer, and this may not be the time when "HOW" with the perfect preservation of individual rights happens, but soon (I hope), certainly eventually.
Until then we put up with a system of International Courts (mostly ineffective), and Self-Defense Forces (at times brutally effective). Like it or not, well done or not, America is still the leader of individual rights in the World today. I for one, would back any Country or leader that is.
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@honoluludesktop said:
Oppression is eventually overcome. Idealistic?
I believe so, yes. I'd much prefer it if there were no opression in the world, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. There will always be people who, for their own personal gain, either oppress or exploit others, be it dictators or stockholders. Greed and lust for power run deep in us.
@honoluludesktop said:
America is still the leader of individual rights in the World today.
A nice thought, but the facts prove otherwise.
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Sure, but we work on it and things get better. Contemporary society beats the days of "ring around the roses". Technologically and socially.
@unknownuser said:
@honoluludesktop said:
America is still the leader of individual rights in the World today.
A nice thought, but the facts prove otherwise.
I'm open to other opinions. Who do you think is doing more for Democracy, and individual rights?
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@honoluludesktop said:
Who do you think is doing more for Democracy, and individual rights?
Pretty much every country that's abolished capital punishment, doesn't circumvent the Geneva Conventions, doesn't illegally abduct foreign nationals, doesn't torture, etc.
Imagine these scenarios:
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I get apprehended on the suspicion of terrorism by the Dutch authorities. If formally charged, I get to have a lawyer. There'll be a trial. Of course - I have rights.
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I get apprehended on the suspicion of terrorism by the US authorities. They blindfold me and put me on a plane. For the next three months or so I'm subjected to physical and psychological torture at a 'black site'. No-one knows where I am. I re-emerge in Guantanamo. There's no charges, no lawyer, no trial. I could be in there for years - even if there'd be no evidence against me. I have no rights, see.
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@unknownuser said:
Who do you think is doing more for Democracy, and individual rights?
If your standard for democracy and individual rights is bombing of innocent civilians without the real target at all (later showcase, don't close your eyes)...
hmmmm... I really don't know any other country that is doing even close for it!
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