Rendering plugins

Tomasi · 19 Mar 2011, 03:24

Hi all, I am new here.
I am a cabinet/furniture maker and am looking to enhance my presentations. Out of these programs which is easiest to learn,fastest to render, and.....most realistic?
Render[in] SB2
IDX Renditioner
Indigo Renderer
IRender nXt
LightUp for SketchUp
SU Podium
Shaderlight
Twilight Render
VRay
There may be more that I am unaware of. Thanks for the input!

jarynzlesa · 19 Mar 2011, 10:44

because you didn't mention a price of the plugin that the winner is Vray for sketchup (or Thea Render).

ilay7k · 19 Mar 2011, 10:56

I prefer from this list: vray. It has advanced layered material system. And for example, if you made anything with lacquered wood material or bumpy-grained surface of plastic, you can easy manipulate by adv.options of reflection or bump/displacement maps.

Of course, if you prefer rapid modeling|assembling and texturing with clients, Shaderlight, Renderin - as realtime renders are your choice

honoluludesktop · 19 Mar 2011, 11:59

None, some are fast, some are easy, and some have more options to render with.

srx · 19 Mar 2011, 12:08

I suggest Twilight for start and Thea for advanced.

charly2008 · 19 Mar 2011, 13:35

Hi,

I would recommend to start with the free Kerkythea to gain experience.

Charly

arail1 · 19 Mar 2011, 15:24

Vray is at the higher end of pricing and it's not the easiest program to learn but from my limited knowledge I find that it 'gets' wood better than other programs I've used. Something about the light. There is an adage that says you can make any rendering program do what any other rendering program does if you know how to use it. I don't find that to be true. I use modo and now, on a 30 day demo, Vray, and I find the light in each to be very different and very distinctive.

Also, keep in mind that some programs are plug-ins and others are standalone apps. Vray is a plug-in so it works inside SketchUp. You can't use it to render a model from another program unless you convert it and bring it into SketchUp. Thea on the other hand is a stand alone program so you can bring a model into it from any program that it has a plug-in for.

There are pluses and minuses to each of these approaches. Working inside a program means that you don't have to export the model every time you make a change. It's worth asking yourself how you work. Some people complete a model and make few changes once it's done. A stand alone program works well for them. But I make changes all the time so exporting the model to a separate rendering program gets tedious. Each to his own.

Hope this helps in some way.

Vicspa · 19 Mar 2011, 15:38

IMHO, try the Free kerkythea, then eventually go to Thea render.

Tomasi · 19 Mar 2011, 17:31

Thanks all. I am shocked how fast the responses came. I guess what's important is that doesn't take me days to come up with a believable rendering as I make a living building cabinets and furniture not making these renderings. My goal is to be able to say, render an entertainment center or such within maybe 2-3 hours. $ is not so important as I hope...u get what u pay for. Question is..
is this true? Is Vray for $ 800 better than Shaderlight for $200?
What's most annoying is that it seems rendering in any program u click the render button..it renders (slOOOoooooowly), then theh light is poor,
change lighting...re-render (wait, wait wait.), lighting still poor, add some lights and position in room, re-render (my head is now on the keyboard) Ok, acceptable, but the floor sheen could be more reflective...etc, etc. Is there no better method than trial and error?
Thanks again!

solo · 19 Mar 2011, 17:54

Rendering…

There are literally thousands of threads regarding rendering, be it comparisons, advice, features, issues, bugs, new releases, etc.

Why do we render?
Stupid question? Maybe, but really why? How many have actually rendered anything and got paid to do so?
Is it for financial gain or just a hobby?

Rendering, regardless if it’s professional or leisure should be enjoyable, as art it to an accomplished or novice artist. How many times have I heard the words “I hate rendering”? never actually, that’s the whole point, most folk that render chose to and love it, the ones that did not like it, do not render, and there are many out there that tried and failed.
So rendering is an art, and like painting or sculpturing it takes an interest firstly then a talent and a love for one to succeed.
Not everyone that renders becomes great at it, I have seen renders from folks that have been at it for years and frankly they still produce mediocre images, and then I see some works from absolute noobs that astonish me, why is this?
Is it because rendering takes talent and an artistic ability? I believe so, like teaching as an example, a great teacher loves to teach, love kids, wakes up every morning looking forward to getting into class, a bad teacher lacks that enthusiasm, people skills, regardless of the knowledge they acquired in college they just do not have the skill set or the love of their trade to succeed.

So if you do not have the desire then don’t do it, you will only succeed if you enjoy it and if you enjoy it you will become addicted and your addiction will lead to you investing many days and weeks learning, which will result in greatness…it’s that simple.

Okay, the most discussed point, what renderer to use…

This topic gives me toothache, I’m so utterly bored by it as there is no answer, it’s almost like the Mac vs. PC debate.
Mac guys need to walk a mile in PC user’s shoes as PC users need to understand Mac users thinking, and at the end they need to both agree that both platforms get the job done and it’s just a preference debate and not a superiority issue.
Just like rendering apps, there are entry level ones, medium skilled ones and the advanced ones. I have seen renders with basic no-bells-no-whistle apps that rival the top-end apps done by someone that truly understands the art compared to someone that believes having the best tools makes him great. Owning a studio and all the art supplies does not make you an artist.
IMO I’d suggest anyone looking to start rendering consider an entry level product (I won’t name apps) and learn the basics, understand lighting, learn how to set up basic materials, and get to know the terminology. Register on the apps forum and ask questions, read questions and learn from the members that you feel are at a skill level you are trying to achieve, post your works and be open and learn from criticism.
You can do this with every render app out there, and all this without even purchasing a thing as they all have a trial or demo version available and this is such a brilliant way to find the app that works for you.
Try before you buy, it’s really that easy, now that said don’t over commit yourself, try one app at a time, I once tried to learn two render apps at the same time and ended up never giving any a fair chance.

So to recap, if you are not having fun, forget about it as you will never succeed.

Tomasi · 19 Mar 2011, 18:26

eloquently put. I get it now....its like cable vs. Dish vs. etc.
Arbitrary. Thanks for taking the time. Yes, I enjoy the rendering end product, but the time it takes from making a change to seeing what that change does in the "real" rendering is sooooo frigin slow its painstaking. Is that just the name of the game? Can I do something to my computer to make it faster (like give it some meth or something)?

Humpmetwice · 19 Mar 2011, 18:41

Well spoken Solo and I also find myself in that position on what to buy but like you said I'm trying out alot of different ones!This one was done with V-ray, seems to be the easiest I've tried so far to work with but I still have alot of work and reading ahead!

solo · 19 Mar 2011, 19:26

What machine do I need for rendering?

Another frequently asked question, maybe we need a sticky FAQ for these questions.

Rendering is not a simple task for a computer as there are so many calculations taking place that pretty much eats up everything it has.
Even adjusting your machines priorities does not help as if you give this process the highest priority then you pretty much have a machine working on one chore and nothing left for anything else and even that won’t be much faster than an average priority.

So let’s look at it, you have a choice these days between GPU, CPU and Hybrid rendering (although hybrid is still new and many companies are still working this out)
CPU is the standard, the traditional and hands down the most robust and accurate, GPU is real-time (ahem, at least it’s supposed to be) and it relies on your graphics card/cards to render on the fly, problem here is there is no standard, comparison is like Mac vs. PC again, remember the firewire vs. USB war? Well we have OpenCL vs. Cuda now. Personally I believe OpenCL will win as it can work on both ATI and Nvidia cards where Cuda only works on Nvidia cards (the lion share of the GPU market)

Then on the CPU based render apps we have biased and unbiased renderers, without going into boring details let me say that unbiased renders will take longer as they calculate every beam of light and result in a very accurate image, where biased makes assumptions, making the rendering process faster and also give great (similar) results when set up right.
Biased renders take more setup time than unbiased renders, but then they will render faster as opposed to unbiased, so don’t always be fooled by the speed of the render, remember the setup is also going to be a time issue.

So depending on what render app you use you will always need the matching hardware.

I’d always suggest buying the fastest, best bad-boy machine you can afford if you want to render. The more cores the better, the more ram the better, heck the more networked machines with many cores even better as many render programs today can run in network mode, so why not put the biggest scariest beast together and spend more time being creative and less time waiting.

arail1 · 19 Mar 2011, 20:26

@tomasi said:

eloquently put. I get it now....its like cable vs. Dish vs. etc.
Arbitrary. Thanks for taking the time. Yes, I enjoy the rendering end product, but the time it takes from making a change to seeing what that change does in the "real" rendering is sooooo frigin slow its painstaking. Is that just the name of the game? Can I do something to my computer to make it faster (like give it some meth or something)?

In today's market I would say these components will give you the best bang for your buck:
i7 2600K CPU
GTX570 GPU
16 GBs of RAM
650 watt power supply

Edson · 19 Mar 2011, 22:08

the best advice I can give you: try the apps you mentioned and find out for yourself which one you feel more confortable with. there is no point in suggesting you to use XRay if you feel unconfortable with it and end up preferring a much simpler and cheaper app.

for what it is worth, I use Podium.

arail1 · 19 Mar 2011, 22:34

@solo said:

Rendering…
There are literally thousands of threads regarding rendering, be it comparisons, advice, features, issues, bugs, new releases, etc.

Maybe, but really why? How many have actually rendered anything and got paid to do so?

Well said.

I have been paid for rendering work but more importantly my renderings sell my work. I'm designing two stairs right now both of which are for clients who saw things they wanted on my website. All of the images on my site are renderings of things I've not built. Generally I model and render things I want to build, not what I have built. That way the necessary compromises of my built work aren't driving my direction forward, my ambitions for what I want to build are. Hope that makes sense.

I can't imagine someone succeeding at rendering who doesn't have some kind of inner compulsion. I would say all of the manuals are incomplete or poorly written. More often than not the illustrations refer to a version of the software that doesn't even exist anymore. The available video tutorials are a godsend but rarely are they complete enough to get you into home base. It's all a massive headache.

To paraphrase Solo - you have to need it. I closed down a woodworking shop that I had in operation (limping, stumbling along) for twenty years and then found that, after the relief of not having to pay the rent and the salaries anymore, I still wanted to make things. So now I'm modeling and rendering rather than cutting and gluing. I'm not very good at it. I can go over and over the manuals and still not get a passable render without an enormous amount of trial and error. I'd like it to be easier and I'm sure it will be over time.

But the bottom line is - nothing can tell a prospective client more clearly what I want to have built for them than a good rendering.

Tomasi · 20 Mar 2011, 02:30

Seems like you have to be a computer wiz for any of this. Just tried to install indigo for sketchup.....
First they tell you to install "Indigo 2.4.13 for MAC OS X", which conflicts with the offering of downloading the "archive for indigo 2.4.13 for MAC OS X"...after that you are asked to download an "exporter for Sketchup" (which apparently is another word for "Skindigo"...not obvious is it?) After doing all this none of the downloads are giving me an option to open them in Sketchup...rather I am only able to open the "indigo" program (not "skindigo" mind u) and then I sit in front of a screen not being able what to do. I am not a computer person but I can't imagine I am that lame. Maybe I am. Thanks for you comments, I will cease to post again as I am sure those proficient in this world are annoyed by now, sorry for that,
Chris

mitcorb · 20 Mar 2011, 04:07

Please don't cease posting. Please post again with questions.
You don't realize it, but drawing that knowledge from everyone who replied has helped me, and I am sure, others who have been reading this thread.
When you get into the midst of actually rendering and have questions. Please post again, as these same people among others will gladly respond.

solo · 20 Mar 2011, 06:24

chris, don't give up.

I never used Indigo for this exact reason, it was way too complicated to even install, so hang in there mate.

Gaieus · 20 Mar 2011, 07:30

I do not use Indigo either but as far as I know (and can tell), skindigo, the exporter plugin is just a "regular" plugin that you have to install just like any other plugin. Then with that plugin you can export your model to the rendering app itself

If you choose Kerkythea, you will have to (also) install su2kt.rb which is the exporter plugin. The same for Thea and all standalone studio renderers.

Some work inside SU: Podium, Renditioner, Twilight (no Mac version yet) etc. but for all these, you also need to install a plugin that will bring up the UI for you.

And indeed, do not stop posting. This is a forum that is aimed to help people and experienced "pro's", if they indeed express their being annoyed by newbie questions are regularly scolded.

Why do you think we even have a Newbie Forum here - on top of all other forums?