Components, layers and materials

gmac

ok, i admit that i have a lot of preconcieved notions before starting in SketchUP and one was putting all the same materials in 'material by layer' kind of setup. In working in ACAD 3d this seemed like the best way with accurender. that was 5 years ago though, new company, software, etc.

so now using SketchUP and understand the value of components, etc. But after the tutorials I wanted to clarify some things.

QUESTION: what is the best set of steps for creating components and where should the basic lines/surfaces reside (layers)? I have been drawing on zero as default and making groups, then components, then moving the compenents to obvious layers. But from an efficiency standpoint, I'm curious what the 'best management practices' are for this.

For example, I'm building a component for an apartment deck, it has painted steel railing and structure, aluminum decking and some kind of railing panel that is yet undetermined. (will be experimenting with materials on the panels, could be pickets or mesh or glass. ) so basically 3 materials.

thanks. hope that is clear. (a little wordy....oh well)

GREG

Gaieus

Hi Greg,

@gmac said:

I have been drawing on zero as default and making groups, then components, then moving the compenents to obvious layers.

Keep doing this. This is vital in SketchUp; NEVER ever put any raw geometry onto anything but Layer0. In fact, best practice is NOT to ever change the active layer as you may make some mistake.

gmac

ok, well that makes sense now that I'm thinking that way.

So the concept of 'color or material by layer' doesn't really apply here as well?

Seems like there could be confusion when you move things between models when like or similar layers exist.

And so in the example, I don't really need a steel, aluminum and panel layers, just create it all on zero, group and component as necessary then put the component on a layer called 'deck'. (maybe?)

thanks again. -Greg

Sawduster

@gaieus said:

Hi Greg,

@gmac said:

I have been drawing on zero as default and making groups, then components, then moving the compenents to obvious layers.

Keep doing this. This is vital in SketchUp; NEVER ever put any raw geometry onto anything but Layer0. In fact, best practice is NOT to ever change the active layer as you may make some mistake.

Csaba,
Could you elaborate on why it is vital to never put raw geometry on anything but the zero layer? I've been putting complete components, including the geometry, onto separate layers so I can hide them when I need to get inside to manipulate components etc.

Gaieus

Jerry, as you (probably) know, layers do not separate geometry so raw geometry being on different layers will still interact with each other (just like in the below video).

YouTube - Google SketchUp Technique Series: Layers
[flash=480,385:32k3etj3]http://www.youtube.com/v/fBdP499iw0Y?fs=1&hl=hu_HU[/flash:32k3etj3]

Now Layer0 is a special layer. You should always leave your raw geometry there so that confusions like in the above video do not happen.

Make a test (about it's "specialness")

Draw something simple
Group it and put the group only onto a different layer (notice that the geometry inside will still be on Layer0)
Now make another layer active (with the round radio button) and turn off Layer0. You will see that the geometry on Layer0 does NOT disappear!
This is exactly for the reason above; to always display raw geometry here.

So practically there is no need to put both the component (as an entity) AND the inside content (the raw geometry) on another layer together but if you do so and later want to change the layer of your component, you will get mixed results and soon end up with a mes you cannot follow any more.

TIG even wrote a plugin to put all raw geometry (inside groups/components) onto Layer0 in case someone notices problems due to geometry being on different layers:
http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?t=7638

Dave R

Hi Jerry.

I think Csaba has given you some excellent information about why you should keep geometry on Layer 0.

Reading your question I was reminded of some furniture models I've seen from another woodworker in which he didn't follow that "rule". Unfortunately he wound up with a lot of geometry associated with the wrong layers so when you would turn off visibility for the drawer layer, part of a door would disappear. Or if you turned off the layer for to desktop, parts of other parts in the model would disappear leaving big holes in the groups and components. I saw these models before TIG's Default Layer Geometry so repairing the models was a long job.

You might find this good reading.

Sawduster

Thanks, Guys. I guess I need to change my modeling procedure some. It'll actually help me with keeping things straight. I've caught myself putting stuff on the wrong layer and have had to go back and move different components to the right layer in order to keep things straight. This way I can just stay working on the 0 layer all of the time until I start separating things out.

Dave R

Jerry, in my work I never find any need to change the active layer. Layer 0 is always active. Everything is created on Layer 0 including text and dimensions (although I almost never use text or dimension in SU anymore) and then the layer association is changed for the components afterward.

The thing I find that works for me is to wait until the model is complete before I even create the layers. I create the layers and turn them off. Then I go through the model selecting components and making layer associations. Since the layers are all invisible, the components disappear as the layer associations are made. I keep going until I have a blank drawing window. Then I turn the layers back on and start creating the scenes I need with the various layers set as needed.

Nearly every model I make anymore ends up with an exploded view as well as an assembled view and then views of individual parts. I make the layers and associations before I make the copy of the model for the exploded view.

Gaieus

One more caveat with Layers (please, test yourself).

Draw something simple on Layer 0. Keep this raw geometry on this layer.
Now make a group of it and put that group on another layer. (Double check that the raw geometry inside the group is still on Layer 0)
Now with Layer 0 still active, explode the group and (to your due horror), see that all raw geometry that used to be correctly on Layer 0 now defaults to the layer where you put the group. (This does not work with groups inside groups - i.e. if you explode a parent group, the child groups retain their original layer).
Good thing that after exploding, all the entities are still selected so you can quickly change their layer back.
This is almost a bug-like stupid feature we have reported several times to no avail. It can trick an experienced user not to speak about a newbie who is trying to keep himself to the suggestions but finds that (not by his fault), SU screws his model up big time.

So always keep TIG's plugin at hand, no matter if you think you cannot be tricked because just one time you do not remember this or overlook it and you are in a mess.

gmac

ok, all good info. thanks everybody. Love having a system that works in place.

Cheers, GREG