Bonzai3D - double take

jpalm32 · 28 Mar 2010, 14:31

this is actually not a tutorial but a journal of my experience with a new (your) software from a designers point of view. i will send you the file so you can check it out and advise on what's going on. i will try one more time from scratch since i'm not too far in anyways.

biting my tongue over your last statement.

I bit my tongue at the same time. WTHF what's up with that staement.
This thread is GREAT!!!

MrWip · 15 Apr 2010, 12:42

Great subject xrok1, you're really asking good questions, and I see that SU user have struggle on the same point while beginning with B3D.

It's good to see that I'm not the only one to envounter many crashes, even with an updated version of B3D and graphic drivers... I really hope this will evolve, because you have to trust the program you're using everyday...not knowing when it will shut down is a real pain...

Since B3D people are around here responding to questions, there is something they may explain... Actually, it's just a small parameter, but it stops me going further in B3D workflow : when you're making an extrusion, or something like that, you first pick the object, then begin the movement, clearly visually presented by a nice arrow, then you enter the dimension you want (actually it's sound like sketchup...) BUT (and that's where its really annoying...) there is a "minus" to enter if you want to go in one way... actually, giving the direction + a dimension should be enough, but here, you have to take care of the direction (quite arbitrary... maybe normal related...), and enter for example "50" or "-50 " regarding to the direction.
I didn't find a way to disable that (maybe it's an hidden option, and my post make no sense...) and it really reduce my interest in the subject... I
t may sound like a rather small problem, but it's killing the workflow when you're constantly pushpulling things around in a model... so I hope it's just an option , somewhere...

xrok1 · 15 Apr 2010, 17:34

mrWip if you look closely through my extensive critiques i've mentioned this too. stating that Bonzai should take the direction of you initial movement into account as the direction you want your action to go in. funny thing is it does work properly with the move tool you don't need +- then it goes in the direction you start in.
anyway the Bonzai team reported a while back that there will be an update in april so i have paused my project until then so i can also include comments about the update and see if it helped streamline the work-flow any. lets hope so...

xrok1 · 4 May 2010, 02:48

@bonzai3d support said:

Rocky,
The (missing) options to Align and Snap to Ghosted was an oversight, and will be added with the next update (in April).

here we are in may

rickgraham · 4 May 2010, 17:31

Hi Xrok et al,

I am really liking this thread, but I DO need to ask..

So far, what I have seen done with this software with pictures and descriptions looks like other rubies can duplicate unless I'm missing something major here.

But keep up the work. It is good to see ones processes.

Rick

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 17:40

You can create the same in SU for most of it, true. But Bonzai is a NURBS modeller, a different animal. It can deal with solids and geometry is more parametric than SU.

rickgraham · 4 May 2010, 18:13

@thomthom said:

You can create the same in SU for most of it, true. But Bonzai is a NURBS modeller, a different animal. It can deal with solids and geometry is more parametric than SU.

Thanks Thomthom,

So in other words for my application as 99.999% commercial architecture/landscape architecture, SU is still it. I will admit, I really like their demo of contours and terrains tho..

Rick

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 18:22

SU is fine.
But Bonzai is fine as well for that. Let you cut into solid walls. And the walls have parametric width and height.
I did try out the terrain tool, very nice in that it let you choose between smooth and stepped, but it requires all contours to be connected. Any small caps, as there often is in the data one get, will prevent it from generating terrain. While SU's sandbox tool accepts any amount of garbage.
The cleaner the contours the better the terrain of course, but at least SU let you get at a starting point, while Bonzai just flat out refuses to play game. To me that was disappointing because I can't can't go through all the contours to ensure they are connected to generate a terrain. The data is just too big for that, and one have no idea where the smallest gap might hide.

xrok1 · 4 May 2010, 18:30

thom did you try the object doctor? i'd be curious to know if that would work.
bonzai should have better dialogs and trouble shooting when it fails at certain operations or the object doctor should run automatically.

still waiting for the update

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 18:51

No - I have not tried the Doctor.

xrok1 · 4 May 2010, 19:03

it would be nice to know. if you have a minute maybe you could try and see? or send me a file so i could try it.

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 19:05

I'm not sure if I have any dwg counter data files at home. Might have to try it out at the office tomorrow...

bonzai3d support · 4 May 2010, 20:34

We are pleased to announce that the bonzai3d 2.1 update has now been released. To update a registered version of bonzai3d (v. 2.0), simply select Check for Updates from the bonzai3d Help Menu and follow the prompts.

We have also released the 2.1 Trial version of bonzai3d, which can be downloaded from the usual Trial Download page, or by filling out this form:

(bonzai3d.com)

The complete description of what is new in bonzai3d 2.1 can be found in this PDF, which is also downloaded automatically to your bonzai3d folder when you run the automatic update.

(www.bonzai3d.com)

What’s new in bonzai3d v2.1:

Dimension unit display: Dimension styles have been enhanced with a new option : Include Units.

NURBS by Lofting tool: New options have been added to the N-Loft tool.

Match View tool: A new option, Angle Only has been added to increase the flexibility of the view matching process.

Snap to ghosted objects: A new Snap To Ghosted option has been added to the Object Snaps Options palette.

SketchUp 7.0 import: The sketchup importer can now import files created with SkecthUp 7.

On Windows, this new SKP importer will require an additional library from Microsoft. Please download this specific version of Microsoft’s vcredist_x86.exe from near the bottom of This Page:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=766a6af7-ec73-40ff-b072-9112bab119c2&displaylang=en

Bug corrections:
There are over 50 bug corrections in this version. Here are a few highlights:
• Stability of operations on smooth object has been improved.
• Area pick of parts is now much faster.
• Large JPEG images are now correctly displayed.
• Triangulate export option is now available for Facetted and Parametric exports..
• Closing and Saving a project is now enabled when Isolate Object is active (projects are saved without the objects isolated).
• 3Dconnexion devices now respect changes to axes set in the System Preferences on Macintosh.
• Space bar on Windows no longer creates two spaces when editing names in attributes dialog for layers, views, lights, scenes, reference & clipping planes.
• The Angle field of the input palette that is displayed with the line drawing tool now accepts typed input correctly.
• Background images no longer display upside down in certain cases.
• Text objects are now exported to DWG at their proper size.
• Export to DWG no longer triangulates all faces.
• DWG export now correctly exports view spin parameter.
• Changing the view now activates the Save and Save As... items in the File menu.
• Switching to another tool after right clicking in an active result buffer no longer causes a hang.
• The Piranesi export now works correctly.
• The degree symbol now displays correctly.
• Deleting control points on splines now works properly.
• and many more.....

Let us know what you think!

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 20:54

Hey - that looks like a nice update. Sorts out some of my issues, I can tell by just a glance.

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 20:55

how does one determine if one need that MS patch?

bonzai3d support · 4 May 2010, 21:04

Thomas,

Real contours never end, and as such, we require the contours to at least end outside of the boundary of the site. (It could be possible to make an inaccurate terrain by guessing what the contours should be, but quality geometry and accuracy are very important to us, so we require proper contours to get the best results.)

Finding end points that are inside the site boundary can be pretty easy if you turn on the Show First Point option from the Interactive Tab of the Wireframe Display Options. Any endpoint that is inside the site boundary (and not part of a closed line) then needs to be joined to another line, or moved outside the site boundary.

This is pretty easy (even with complex contours) once you know the trick, but if you have any questions or problems with a specific file, feel free to ZIP and email it to support@bonzai3d.com so we can take a look at it and give you some help.

Regarding the Microsoft vcredist, if you have the latest version of SketchUp, then you should already have it (but you should install it again if SKP fails in general).

ps. Yes, Thomas, a couple of these bugs were thanks to your reports. (Thanks again! )

thomthom · 4 May 2010, 21:12

@bonzai3d support said:

This is pretty easy (even with complex contours) once you know the trick, but if you have any questions or problems with a specific file, feel free to ZIP and email it to support@bonzai3d.com so we can take a look at it and give you some help.

I can see if I can dig out. I make terrains from DWG data, they they always have lots of caps here and there. It would take ages to stitch it up manually. You might see the scale better if I send a sample.

@bonzai3d support said:

Real contours never end, and as such, we require the contours to at least end outside of the boundary of the site. (It could be possible to make an inaccurate terrain by guessing what the contours should be, but quality geometry and accuracy are very important to us, so we require proper contours to get the best results.)

Sure, accuracy is good. But for the type of jobs I work with, I never have such ideal data. This is where I miss a tool that can interpolate most of it. Usually it's good enough.
The most common type of gaps are microscopic gaps you can hardly see, and some are chunks where lines are removed. For instance, a map where you usually got contour every 1 meter, in steep areas, the surveyor data is often showing only each 5 meters suddenly.

To me the terrain tools look to work best when you create the contours yourself manually. But not so well when used to visualize actual data.

bonzai3d support · 4 May 2010, 21:31

Thomas,

If the breaks are microscopic, you can just use the Join tool to automatically join open lines within whatever tolerance you like. (Just set the Tolerance greater than the microscopic gap -- but smaller than the distance between segments that you don't want to join...)

rickgraham · 4 May 2010, 22:55

@bonzai3d support said:

Real contours never end ....

umm, if you have a hill or a ditch they do.

I might have to try the software out especially on my AutoCAD contours. In AutoCAD (well, actually Civil 3D) the contours are all perfect; i.e. no breaks. When I import them into SU, they are fragmented and have holes. Some rubies help somewhat, but my experience is that I'd rather have all my teeth removed with pliers and without Novocaine.

Rick

xrok1 · 4 May 2010, 23:34

is anyone else having a nightmare with 2.1? i upgraded (use term loosely) and the first thing i tried; terrain in light of recent discussion; froze my whole system, i couldn't even bring up the task manager or start menu... then i got these popping up never seen this in my life. WTF? a run command.
maybe i should wait for ver 3?