Size limits on 2D export
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Is there a known size limit to 2D export (tiff with transparency and anti alias)?
SU seems to be imposing its own limit by crashing with enormous frequency once the width of the export exceeds 10,000 pixels and unfortunately I need up to 12,000. A freshly opened SU with a freshly loaded file will cope with over 11,000 on a good day with a following wind but it's very erratic and needs to be closed and re-opened before each export.
What are the factors that affect this, just size, or does model complexity have anything to do with it? Strangely it doesn't seem to judging empirically.
I am exporting from SU V7 standard issue on a Mac Pro with 8GB RAM and oodles of VM and swap space.
Thanks for any advice you can offer.
David Mac
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I wish I had the answer, I too get all different results depending on the direction of the wind.
I have 12GB ram and that means nada as SU is 32bit and cannot see more than 3.6GB (I think)
Closing and opening helps a little, restarting your machine-opening SU helps even more, but not scientific.Me thinks SU has PMS at times.
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this is one of the areas where you're better off using osx SU.. you'll basically be able to export at twice the size as you could with windows..
i don't think any clear cut answers have ever been stated here in regards to this topic but there was a export test thread last year.. probably no answers for you in it but maybe interesting to read nonetheless.http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?p=141587
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Jeff
Thanks for the pointer to the thread. These do indeed seem murky waters and as you point it would seem that I am actually doing rather well
Solo
Nice and varied portfolio. Thanks for your response.
David Mac
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Turning off anti aliasing would probably help you export larger images, although i dont know how much it'll effect the quality of the final image.
Bit of a stab in the dark, but using another format like uncompressed jpg or png may also help, as my vague intuition is telling me theyre not as 'heavy' as tiff.
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Remus is probably right about the file format. TIFF is very heavy and with such large images that may cause prooblems (although I always though the max export limit is 9999 pixels but that may be Windows only).
Anyway, as you need transparency (again, a Mac privilege as we cannot export with transparency), I would go for png. Is there any special reason you need tiff? Can you not convert the png file into tiff later?
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I think turning off anti aliasing might be shooting myself in the foot. The large export sizes are because the SU models are elements for insertion very large high quality Photoshop files. So quality is important. This is also the reason I need an alpha channel.
I will have a stab at PNG. There was no especial reason for Tiff except for transparency and habit - it is my common format of choice for use within Photoshop after PSD itself.
However, the suggestion that file formats might be connected with export size has given me a thought ........ If a high quality JPG will give me a large size then I can improvise an alpha mask separately. All my models are exported on a simple white background. I can export a second JPG with the sun position set so as to render the model completely black. To create a mask layer or channel in Photoshop from this would be the work of but a moment.
Hmmmmmmm ...........
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OK ... I've done some trials. Here's the score card. 2D export of a freshly open file in a freshly open SU using screen proportions (2560x1600 = 1:1.6) Dual Quad core Mac Pro 8GB RAM.
TIFF max width 12000
PNG Max width 12000
JPG Max width 14000 (Quality 10)Given that that TIFF and PNG come out the same and that the TIFF file produced weighed in at 354MB against the PNG at just 12.5 and the JPG at 13.6 it would seem that export capability is not governed by file size, but by SU's own calculations.
This led me to speculate that larger JPG's can be generated because SU isn't having to use resources to calculate and store the transparency. So I tried turning off transparency in TIFF and PNG and was able in both cases to push the export size up to the same 14000.
So now I can get the large exports I need. For alpha masking I simply fill the model with black, push the sun below the horizon, and export the black silhouette which is easily turned into a mask in Photoshop.
Clunky ........ but it works.
Another way 2D export is a bit unpredictable is the "stickiness" of settings. Sometimes it remembers them from one export to the next and some times it refuses to remember at all and has to be set manually each time. Mind you that's a lot better than Open Recent on the Files menu, which appears to be totally amnesiac .........
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Can't you apply antialiasing while working in PS? Certainly the final output should not be without it but while calculating, SU concentrates considerable resources on AA.
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Yes of course. I do a lot of edge refinement in PS. Usually softening as the SU export is usually too crisp compared to the photographic elements. But my PS image is 12000 x 9000 px with a huge number of layers. This puts a terrible strain on OSX PS which is still only 32 bit ..... and gets pretty slow. So I prefer to feed the monster with a diet that is already as refined as possible and do what I can pre PS.
In the end it is always a matter of finding the best compromise. I push each application to its limits to find out what is best done where .........
David Mac
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Okay, thanks. That makes sense.
Sigh... I cannot even dream about exporting at such large format with AA on (even with AA off I guess)
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@gaieus said:
Sigh... I cannot even dream about exporting at such large format with AA on (even with AA off I guess)
Well Gaieus it may just be that, even at my advanced age, I am the unexpected answer to a maiden's prayer.
You got me thinking. I love trying to fool software into doing stuff it's not necessarily intended to. I have that kind of obstinate lateral eccentric mindset that likes getting to grips with what supposedly 'can't be done'. My philosophy is there's always a way if you look in the right place.
Now you are obviously a very expert user and I am completely the part time SU amateur (I am a Photographer/Photoshopper who simply uses SU to create "elements" for composites) but in an attempt to emulate the mouse that roared I shall offer you a work around. Like all work arounds it is clunky. But, as far as I can see, it does work!
The obvious solution to exporting a very large image is to tile it and assemble the tiles into a single image after exporting them. Zoom right in to just (for example) a quarter of the model and export it. Now pan to the next quarter and export that, and so forth. The catch, of course, is that in 3D you can't .......... if you pan a 3D object you pan it in 3D space and change the viewpoint. Your exported images won't match. Moving an image around to export tiles only works in a 2D image. But ..... I realised there is a way to force SU to treat a model as a 2D plane. But unless, like me, you are a frequent user of the Match Photo dialogue then you are unlikely ever to have discovered it.
This is what you do:
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Load your model and zoom it to almost fill the screen but with a bit of "air" all around it.
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Open the Match Photo dialogue and load a photo. ANY photo will do ... girlfriend, grandmother, landscape, what ever is lying around handy.
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Your model view will be reset to a view with camera at horizon level with a girlfriend (or whatever) in the background. We don't need her any longer - set the Opacity slider in the Match Photo dialogue to zero.
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Now use the Match Photo screen controls to get the view of your model you want. Don't worry too much about size - what you are looking for is the viewpoint and perspective that you want for your export. You will need to use the origin control, the yellow horizon line and the red and green vanishing point lines. It takes a bit of experiment and getting used to but you can actually set just about any view you want with a bit of fiddling. (One caveat here: Although size on the screen is not critical, the Match Photo tool displays a red rectangle indicating the edges of the imported photo. This gets exported with image. So it is best to keep your model within it, although you can always erase later in Photoshop.)
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Once you are happy with your view click Done in the Match Photo dialogue and your view will be saved as a scene.
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Now comes the fun bit. Try using the zoom and pan controls, but DO NOT TOUCH the Orbit tool. (If you do by mistake then click the Scene button at the top of the image to restore the matched photo view you set up.) You will see that SU treats a matched photo view as a special case ......... it pans and zooms it as a 2D plane not as a 3D model!!
Now you can just zoom within your model and use the hand tool to move it around to export it as tiles.
Like all work arounds it is less than ideal. But it is actually much less complicated than it sounds, and it does seem to work.
Now it is quite possible, that in my inexperience, I have missed something here, but I've tried it several times and I really can't find a catch. But perhaps someone else out there knows better ........
Anyway, have fun. Do let me know if you think this swims or sinks ..... to tell the truth, I am rather proud of it .....
David Mac
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Wow.
This is a great reading. I am not sure I can follow every bit of this info but will definitely fiddle around.
BUT - this will inevitably sink to the bottom eventually. Would you care to elaborate it (maybe even with a couple of screenshots) and post it in the Tutorial forum? That would be awesome!
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It's not obvious on first reading. I do appreciate that. I think one really needs to have a go hands on. Its one of those "Aha!" ideas which isn't evident until you actually try it. In the end this is exploiting an SU oddity, rather than conventional use.
Its late here (Belgium) now Gaieus, but I'll take a look at putting this together tomorrow in a more coherent form for the tutorial forum.
Which leads to a dumb question. Where do you go for non newbie general discussion? The other groups seem highly specialised "Wish list, Bugs, Google earth, Dynamic components, etc." and all sorts of other equally specialised topics "Plugins, Developers, Extensions, etc.".
Where does the not quite any longer Newbie go for exchanging ideas of a general nature ...... such, indeed, as this one?
David Mac
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@davidmac said:
Its late here (Belgium) now Gaieus, but I'll take a look at putting this together tomorrow in a more coherent form for the tutorial forum.
Thanks for that. I know - it is the same time zone here (but then I got up at about 4 a.m. so I even "feel" it).
@davidmac said:
Where do you go for non newbie general discussion?
Maybe the "general" SketchUp Forum? (Which is indeed the "parent" forum for 4 specialised subforums too - but if you scroll down, you can see that outside those specialised ones, there are more general discussions as well)
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@gaieus said:
Maybe the "general" SketchUp Forum? (Which is indeed the "parent" forum for 4 specialised subforums too - but if you scroll down, you can see that outside those specialised ones, there are more general discussions as well)
DUH! I saw General Discussions in the drop box but thought it was just a category heading for the four forums within. I didn't realise it was a forum in its own right.
Tunnel vision anybody?
I am about to start work on the tutorial? Fingers crossed!
David Mac
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OK this is now posted as proper tutorial with screenshots and hopefully better instructions.
"Exporting 2D graphics with NO size limit" http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=26527
I have also posted a second tutorial on exporting Alpha masks for your 2D exports.
"Creating an Alpha mask of your model for 2D graphic export" http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=26530#p228664
Bon appetit!
David Mac
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David; thanks a bunch really.
I will definitely go through and try every bit - and then "report" back there.
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