2012
-
Interesting topic. Too bad it has devolved from a movie critique, but I'll put in my $.02 anyway. If there is a God, it's my opinion that what we have been given is pretty simple: Here's your life, here's a planet, here are your bretheren; I've told you not to screw them up, but it's up to you what you actually do.
Otherwise - your life is scripted. There's nothing you can do. God wants entire continents to suffer war, starvation, and disease, not to mention you will likely die a painful or slow, debilitating death (cancer, heart attack, alzheimers, etc...), not peacefully in your sleep. For what reason? Not to mention that the Christian version of religion does not encompass much more than 1/3 of the world.
So, where does that leave us? More than 60% of the world is not getting a Christian afterlife, pretty much no matter what. If you are a Christian and born to a bad environment such as a war torn country or a "3rd world" nation where you will suffer disease, starvation, and deprivation until you die, what chance were you given? Your life was scripted suffering? What about wars done in the name of religion, is God truly on one side an not the other?
Some people have said it better than I can:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” — Epicurus
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ”. - Mahatma Gandhi
I find there are no absolutes in this life, least of all a book of subjective and shifting interpretation written by the hand of fallible men, and called absolute only by fanatics bent on condemning all those around them solely based on the opinion that they are right. This life would be closer to "heaven" if there were no religions, it would remove a major cause of hate and war.
JMO.
-
JMO and others, bravos!
You are ‘above’ God, like Luciferus. The Creator must be your servant…!?At first we have to be ‘nearby’ God to know Him, not to know about Him, from ‘far’ distance!
Who is He, what are His wills, plans and ways, modalities to fulfill them, etc.???
Is our spirit communicating w/ God?! Are we in peace w/ Him?!JMO, wrote: “your life is scripted. There's nothing you can do.”
Wrong! Entire Bible has examples, presented as if…; if…; if…JMO, wrote: “Christian version of religion does not encompass much more than 1/3 of the world.”
Wrong! The Bible is presented inclusive ‘underground’, not only official, not only visible on the table.
The Bible is on the radio, it’s on-line on the Internet…, not only in churches, hotels, libraries or homes.Cornel
-
Cornel, I'm not sure you have noticed or maybe it's not apparent to you as your views are so dogmatic and fundamental but your replies here have resulted in many others countering them with very interesting and well thought out responses. Your intentions may be virtuous and maybe even with a christian purpose and intent, but the result is quite the opposite.
I'm not saying this debate has swayed anyone to join either side but it does show a serious lack of evidence, logic, reasoning and substance from your side. I do respect you for your consistency in your beliefs regardless how ridiculous they may seem to me, and for returning even when the general conception and opinion is very opposite to yours and sometimes bordering on belligerence.
I must say that your responses which are merely excerpts from the bible are not helping your case, in fact if anything they are hurting your cause. As mentioned many times, one cannot use the bible to prove the bible.
-
@unknownuser said:
JMO and others, bravos!
You are ‘above’ God, like Luciferus. The Creator must be your servant…!?There you go, being judgemental again. As Solo says, you are harming your own case.
-
Judging is fine, as long as one admits that once you "judge" you are open to judgment - as per the scripture Cornel doggedly quotes.
Cornel, I'm not sure how you got that I thought I was "above" anything - but then I'm not sure I understand exactly what it is you were trying to say. I'll consider that there may be allowances in scripture for "ifs", but that doesn't jive with what you seem to be saying about there being a big plan for everything. As far as your comment about "1/3 of the world", I don't understand what you are saying. It is a fact that the rest of the world outside of Christianity is not Christian that means they believe in no god, or entirely different god and might even have a completely different idea on how to get to their afterlife (if they have one) than you do. They don't care what is on the radio, TV or in the hotel nightstand. They have no reason to believe that their religion, or lack thereof, is inferior to your belief system; and considering that there are around 66% more of them than Christians, who is to say they aren't right?
This conversation seems to be more about "who" is right rather than "what" is right for you. Your belief system is better and more right than anyone else's. The lack of tolerance, understanding and compromise are the cause of more hate and war on this rock, especially in the name of religion, than anything else. I don't think you'll convert anyone here, Cornel, especially with the intolerant and judgmental views you seem to be presenting here. There has to be room for us all.
-
JMO wrote: “who” is right?
The Word of God is right! The Scripture is self-explanatory and almost everybody has access to study the Bible.
As for me, I’m an independent believer... Everyone is (i)responsible for himself/herself, for there is one God, and only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Cornel
-
@unknownuser said:
JMO wrote: “who” is right?
The Word of God is right! The Scripture is self-explanatory and almost everybody has access to study the Bible.
As for me, I’m an independent believer... Everyone is (i)responsible for himself/herself, for there is one God, and only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Cornel
I see no rebuttals to the opinions I posted in response to your thoughts, you've answered nothing. This is not a discussion, but is just your posting dogmatic responses to all comers. I'm stepping out, there appears to be little or no room for anyone's thoughts or beliefs here but your own.
-
@unknownuser said:
The Word of God is right! The Scripture is self-explanatory and almost everybody has access to study the Bible.
You are kidding now.
Firstly "the word of God"? I heard nothing, man wrote that collection of drivel, how can you in all honestly believe it's the word of God?
And yes we can all study the bible and have, which is how we came to the conclusion that it's drivel. A little known fact is by percentages more Atheists have studied the bible than proclaimed christians. -
You know, Cornel, there are many reading this thread that would call themselves Christians. They are good people, living good lives. They treat their faith as a private concern and do their best to accommodate the views of others…sometimes even if those views or beliefs are not quite as benevolent as their own. They probably were half tempted to chime in on the side of the Good Book, but your blinkered and dogmatic approach makes that virtually impossible. Frankly, you’re the kind of adherent that gives Christianity a bad name. Even the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury…between them representing the majority of Christians…have no problem at all with evolution and Darwinism.
This was a discussion about a rather over-the-top movie. It was you that dragged it into a religious fist fight…yet again…with your incessant Bible quotations on page 3.
It would seem that you don’t even belong to any recognised branch of the church but have merely read the Bible and drawn your own conclusions. I’m happy that you have found fulfilment, but please stop trying to ram those conclusions down our throats at every conceivable opportunity…however inappropriate.If English really is your 5th language and you have trouble communicating clearly, please do us all a favour and go and proselytise somewhere else in your native tongue. You’re spreading way too much bad karma….which totally defeats any message you are trying to get across.
-
Pete, Alan and affected others,
I’m sorry for not ‘eloquent ‘discussions!Behold a strange statistic, (instead of a “dogmatic response”):
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…Why?! Because they have an erroneos ethic: 'God doesn’t exist and men is the result of evolution: w/ altruism, advanced conscience, diligent, etc.'
This is only a postulate, because, in reality, their ethic is this:
'If God doesn’t exist I’m respecting myself, I’m not willing to be busy and to help others, I’m looking only for my advantages, etc.'In a similar maner Mayan people had a postulate that volatilized their entire advanced civilization!
Beware of devolution, guys!Truly I was yours: Cornel
-
-
@unknownuser said:
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…
Why?! Because they have an erroneos ethic: “God doesn’t exist and men is the result of evolution: w/ altruism, advanced conscience, diligent, etc.”
This is only a postulate, because, in reality, their ethic is this:
“If God doesn’t exist I’m respecting myself, I’m not willing to be busy and to help others, I’m looking only for my advantages.Seems to me you should be the last to lecture others on ethics. How dare you write such malevolent drivel?
-
@unknownuser said:
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…
One would think that based on ones christian morals but it's far fom the truth, facts my friends facts.
Here are the athiest stats:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
and here crime rates:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
I guess you are dead wrong.
And as far as religion verses productivity, you are kidding as Nigeria, Albania and Iran are rated as the most religious countries, just do a Google check on how productive they are.
-
@unknownuser said:
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…
What a load of cojones. You’d like it to be true wouldn’t you? Unfortunately for you, Scandinavia is probably the most secular part of the world…you know, that well-known hotbed of criminality, vice, indolence and desperation. As usual you simply invent stuff to justify your prejudice.
The local Rotary club, of which I am a member, is too busy working for the disadvantaged in the local community and the 3rd World to bother about whether individual members have been moved by the Holy Spirit or not. Indeed, we have people from a variety of faiths and none at all. I judge people by their deeds, not their degree of sanctimony. If God has any sense, he does the same thing. Christ had a fairly low opinion of Pharisees, forever quoting the 'rule book'.
-
@unknownuser said:
Pete,
Your links are presenting other kind of statistics, for example Murders vs. Corruption and Criminality.
I finished – I have no other comments!Shame, 'cause I was eagerly awaiting that answer you promised me.
EDIT:
@unknownuser said:
P.S.: Stinkie, I'll sent you a PM!
No, Cornel. Share your insights here.
-
Pete,
Your links are presenting other kind of statistics, for example Murders vs. Corruption and Criminality.
I finished – I have no other comments!Cornel
P.S.: Stinkie, I'll sent you a PM!
-
Cornel, if you do not like my stats then google your own, no matter where you look you ain't gonna find any that support your claims.
-
And to think I only wanted to know what he meant by this:
@unknownuser said:
Stinkie wrote:
“I meant that the 'afterlife' will consist of either burial or cremation. The best you can hope for, is that parts of you will be recycled to help out others.”Is there a problem for you if those “others” will be undesirable beings or things?!
Someone toss me some paracetamol.
-
I was going to add my 2 cents to this debate.
I watched as reasoned, rational, logical points were made.
And all that was provided in response was the same irrational (and always long!) quotes from the "holy scriptures". Quotes that can usually (and have) been interpreted to support any viewpoint you choose.Pete, Alan, Stinkie, EscapeArtist etc, you are wasting time trying to reason with a "faith belief".
We just have to hope that one day the vast majority of people will start to see the world as viewed here: http://richarddawkins.net/
I don't agree with everything on this site but it has to be a much greater starting point than adopting those childish superstitions called religion.
Regards
Mr S -
Excuses, please, that I’m late w/ this answer promised to Stinkie. He insisted to share it w/ you, not to send to him via PM.
Stinkie said that after his time on earth (see page 12), he will be “either fire or worms” (meaning burial or cremation act), but he perhaps will be “recycled to help out others.”
My rhetoric questin to him was if it’s there a problm if he will be recycled into an undesirable destination, to be shure if he eventual treated reincarnation aspect, but he didn’t.
“What do you mean?” – asked me Stinkie.
{EDIT: see: "by stinkie on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:27 am"}Reincarnation is not possible, because a human spirit has only one material support – one body. That body (recycled or not - see below) will be restaurated in one of two possible versions, based on life status of respective person: was or wasn’t ‘born again’.
Now, because Stinkie isn’t born again, I will present his proper Bible ‘setting’:“I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:12-15)
Born again people aren’t part of that judgement and their ‘setting’is totaly different. There aren’t advocates, because everything was recorded. Names of unbelievers aren’t recorded in the Book of Life. Second death is a spiritual one.
Only for living people, there is a way of salvation:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“Jesus told him: I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.” (John 14:60)Now, for a while, we are living people… How long?!
Friends, tomorrow is not ours..., even we are megastars!Cornel
PS: See you on other topic!
Advertisement