Importing and sketching off PDF versions of Arch plans

bmccall17 · 15 Jan 2009, 11:35

I work frequently with architectural plans. Usually they are received as a PDF or series of PDF files.
I would prefer to import these as an image, then trace the page to get my measurements. Here is my typical process:
Import PDF into AdobePS
Crop to the lines I want to trace
Save as a BMP at 200dpi
Look at Image Size to determine exactly the scale to which I need to place the plans in SU.

Open SU and import plans
Set width to Image Size times the scale on drawings
Then trace over the lines to get my to scale model from which I can build and measure for my products.

Some of the challenges I am facing and subsequent requests for users of this forum:

this is a cumbersome process. Is there a simpler way to import a PDF into SU?
the image lines are not very clear.. they are much thicker than the lines I am drawing which requires me to guess where to locate the lines. what method should i use to refine these image lines and use them as better guides.
floor plan is pretty easy, but when i get to elevations and roof details things get dicey. i have to draw a flat model then push and pull into the existing model... there must be a simpler way... on a similar note, i would like to "press" the image of the drawing onto the model walls after i build them. is there a way to do this once the image is already in SU?

That is all for now. In short, I am looking to minimize steps while maximizing accuracy.

Please advise,
BAM!

jim smith · 15 Jan 2009, 13:35

If you can get the PDF files from the architect or engineer as an adobe pdf plot file, it can be converted directly to a dxf file. There are a number of converters on the market. One that I have found that translates well is Aide PDF to DXF converter. They have a free full function trial and it is a fairly cheap purchase. The lettering does not come in as text which limits the use, but for a sketchup background it will work well.

I have tried to convert copies of drawings that are simply scanned from a print, but none of the converters can do much with them. You get a dxf file but it is an image and not vectorized.

If you can't get the vector PDF file then there is little to be done except endure the torture of the sort of procedure you have outlined.

DavidBoulder · 15 Jan 2009, 16:07

If you have a vector PDF file (which should be the case, unless it was a scanned print), then you can open that in Adobe Illustrator and then can save out to a dwg/dxf at full size (in CS3 you set units per inch). Then you just open in SketchUp.

Still not as good as opening the original dwg file, since you won't have layers, but at lest it is vector data vs. an image.

bmccall17 · 17 Jan 2009, 22:55

I dont fully require a layered or vector image.. I just want an image that is to scale that I can then use to trace off of.
I have used Photoshop and Mac's Preview to save the PDF as an image... when the image is imported into SU it ALWAYS distorts the lines making them blurry instead of fine. I have tried changing the DPI settings and the quality settings in the JPG conversion and in other viewers the lines are fine. But when imported into SU they blur out.

So, I need to know how to import these images with fine resolution. Or at minimum their native resolution instead of whatever SU is doing to the images.

Anyone got answers on this one?

bam

Mike Lucey · 17 Jan 2009, 23:46

Bam,

I don't mean to sound flippant here but why don't to get a DWG or DFX file from the architects you are dealing with?

Mike

Chris Fullmer · 18 Jan 2009, 00:58

@bmccall17 said:

So, I need to know how to import these images with fine resolution. Or at minimum their native resolution instead of whatever SU is doing to the images.

Anyone got answers on this one?

SU doesn't do anything to the image, except possibly lose a little quality if the image is too large.

The answer is to use vector information.

If you still would prefer raster, then you can also go into Prefernces>OpenGL and choose display maximum resolution or something like that. That might help.

Or else you could also chop up the image into a series of tiled images. Each one should not be larger than 1024 pixels wide on its widest edge. Then open them all in SU, fit them together, then scale the whole group of them. That also helps maintain image quality.

Do you have a .jpg example you could post here?

Chris

Jim57 · 20 Jan 2009, 05:40

I use Canvas, though maybe not for long because it's no longer supported for Mac. The Windows version is still going strong, though. You can import PDF's and edit them, or convert them to DXF;s.

You minimize the convenience of this, but it means you don't have to trace anything. You don't have to scale anything. You don't even have to scan it in, you just measure directly. In Canvas, I click on a vector line and can read off the size.

Best,

JIm

bmccall17 · 22 Jan 2009, 04:38

@chris fullmer said:

@bmccall17 said:

So, I need to know how to import these images with fine resolution. Or at minimum their native resolution instead of whatever SU is doing to the images.

Anyone got answers on this one?

SU doesn't do anything to the image, except possibly lose a little quality if the image is too large.

The answer is to use vector information.

If you still would prefer raster, then you can also go into Prefernces>OpenGL and choose display maximum resolution or something like that. That might help.

Chris

Chris: this did exactly what I was looking for! Perfect. Thank you!

bmccall17 · 22 Jan 2009, 04:44

@jim57 said:

I use Canvas, though maybe not for long because it's no longer supported for Mac. The Windows version is still going strong, though. You can import PDF's and edit them, or convert them to DXF;s.

You minimize the convenience of this, but it means you don't have to trace anything. You don't have to scale anything. You don't even have to scan it in, you just measure directly. In Canvas, I click on a vector line and can read off the size.

Best,

JIm

Ouch $350! I cant go with this solution yet. I already have too many overhead expenses.
Also, I like the 3D aspect of SU. It allows me to import the floor plans for the footprint drawings of each floor, then I can take the elevations and match them up to the floorplans... with layers I can then see ALL the original drawings right up against the model I create.

Then from this model I can sit with the client, go over the specifics and run my takeoff based on their requests. So far it is proving to be a perfect platform for my business. And the price is brilliant!

Jim: Thank you for sharing your experience and insight.

bmccall17 · 22 Jan 2009, 04:49

@mike lucey said:

Bam,

I don't mean to sound flippant here but why don't to get a DWG or DFX file from the architects you are dealing with?

Mike

Mike:
I run 7-12 takeoffs each week. Often times I am getting the plans from the builder (most of the time). In addition, I have CAD and have requested the full CAD files before from different architects. MOST of the time they send me something that is not well organized... or at least not user friendly for my little experience in CAD.
Other times, they are not willing to give me the working files. I'm guessing it is fear based, but that is speculation.

Thank you for the comment.
Brett

bmccall17 · 22 Jan 2009, 05:07

Another question. (someone advise me if I should start a new thread with this additional question)

Again my process is this:

open PDF in MAC's Preview.
SaveAs JPG
Import JPG into SU

When getting the right scale I am having some complications.
At first I didnt realize that I was sizing to the wrong dimension. If the cursor goes up then I am defining the height, if I go right I am defining the width.
But, I still cannot get it 100% accurate, and would like to...
I am working with a 48"x36" pdf to 3/16 scale. Thus there are 5.3333 feet represented in each 1" on the page. 48" multiplied by 5.3333 equals 255.9984 feet. This defines the FULL SIZE width of the page... right?! Well according to my experience with SU it is NOT accurate.
I even tried getting the measurement from the JPG. It is 6912 pixels on the width at 150 pixels PER INCH!! Divide 6912 by 150 and that gives me 46.08 inches at 3/16 scale (5.3333 feet in each inch) it came out to 245.7585 feet. Still not correct, but going in the correct direction.

When I placed a measurement from somewhere on the page as a reference and then scaled to that line I got the width to equal 191' 7 1/8".

Is there a way to PIN POINT the scale EVERY TIME!?

Also, there are times when I need to "splice" two drawings together and combine them. Or in the case of the elevations it would be super cool to cut the paper off that is below the ground or outside of the lines on the house. Is there a way to draw a line on an image in order to "cut" the paper off the image?
Anyone made this request to google as a feature request?

Anyone got the insight?!

plot-paris · 22 Jan 2009, 12:02

and about your other question:

in order to cut off the unnecessary bits of 'paper', you first have to explode the image. now it is merely a face with the image applied as a texture to it. now you can trace the outline of the building and delete the face and lines around it. then group it again, just to keep things clean.

earlier you asked, if you could apply this image to the elevations of your 3D model.
that is very easily done. once you have built the 3D model, position the image of the elevation (that you have exploded and regrouped previously to make it a textured face) right in front of the correct side of your model. now enter the group of the image, right click the face and under 'Texture' select 'Projected'.
now exit the group again, enter the group of your 3D model, so that you can texture the faces of the wall, activate the paint bucket tool , hold down the Alt key and sample the projected texture of the image.
when you now apply the texture to the faces of the wall, it should be in the correct position.

Chris Fullmer · 22 Jan 2009, 16:27

The scale bit should work out perfectly every time. It is always possible that the contractor or whoever supplied the pdf did not export it correctly. They might have a "auto scale to fit print margins" selected on their pdf exporter or a host of other issues.

But one way to get it to work possibly easier is to use the measuring tape tool to scale the image. So try this.

Import the jpg. Then use the tape measuer tool to measure a line of a known distance. The scale on the drawing is a good option, but anything in the drawing itself is also fair game. Just try to measure as accurately as possible. As soon as you measure it, type the actual length and hit enter. You should be prompted to resize the model. Click yes. That will set the scale of what you measured to what you type in. Hopefully that helps,

Chris

caddict · 22 Jan 2009, 22:30

I have to strongly agree with the "use vector data option". I just think you will have a smoother more satisfying workflow that way. Especially seeing that you need to do this quite a lot. If you are developing a system let it be a good one!

There are few options around for converting pdf to dxf,

http://www.shareup.com/PDF_2_DXF-download-24214.html
for an amzing $49,with a free demo. Does a perfectly good job.

Others for around $180:

http://www.autodwg.com/pdf-to-dwg-converter/Buynow.htm
who also offer a one off conversion service for $10

http://www.aidecad.com/pdf-to-dxf-converter.html?gclid=CPONp5mZo5gCFdEvpAod7QiImw
with a free demo version. Does a good job

(for not much more you could but MoI a primo modeling app which also opens pdfs and has a SU exporter)

Then you will end up with proper vector data which you can measure, scale, edit, whatever in sketchup.

Of course, there will be one or two teething problems...there usually are with data type conversions...give it a go.

bmccall17 · 22 Jan 2009, 23:30

@chris fullmer said:

The scale bit should work out perfectly every time. It is always possible that the contractor or whoever supplied the pdf did not export it correctly. They might have a "auto scale to fit print margins" selected on their pdf exporter or a host of other issues.

But one way to get it to work possibly easier is to use the measuring tape tool to scale the image. So try this.

Import the jpg. Then use the tape measuer tool to measure a line of a known distance. The scale on the drawing is a good option, but anything in the drawing itself is also fair game. Just try to measure as accurately as possible. As soon as you measure it, type the actual length and hit enter. You should be prompted to resize the model. Click yes. That will set the scale of what you measured to what you type in. Hopefully that helps,

Chris

This is BRILLIANT!! One tool that will make my life very easy!! Now, how does it affect multiple images? Does this only apply to the image face that I am working with?

Thanks Chris!
bam

bmccall17 · 23 Jan 2009, 00:06

@plot-paris said:

and about your other question:

in order to cut off the unnecessary bits of 'paper', you first have to explode the image. now it is merely a face with the image applied as a texture to it. now you can trace the outline of the building and delete the face and lines around it. then group it again, just to keep things clean.

earlier you asked, if you could apply this image to the elevations of your 3D model.
that is very easily done. once you have built the 3D model, position the image of the elevation (that you have exploded and regrouped previously to make it a textured face) right in front of the correct side of your model. now enter the group of the image, right click the face and under 'Texture' select 'Projected'.
now exit the group again, enter the group of your 3D model, so that you can texture the faces of the wall, activate the paint bucket tool , hold down the Alt key and sample the projected texture of the image.
when you now apply the texture to the faces of the wall, it should be in the correct position.

Understand the concept and method. Tried it. It crashed SU on my MacPro dual quad core!! Haha. Ill try it again at some point.
Anyone else find SU to be finicky on the Mac? It seems to hang and crash a whole lot more than on my single processor PCs.

Chris Fullmer · 23 Jan 2009, 01:30

The way I described to use that tape measure tool will change the entire model. If you want it to only change 1 image, you need to select the image and explode it. Then double click it to edit it. Then use the tape measure tool. Then only objects within the group being edited will be scaled. Then exit editing that component and go on to the next image the same way.

Chris

Gaieus · 23 Jan 2009, 09:42

@bmccall17 said:

...Now, how does it affect multiple images? Does this only apply to the image face that I am working with?

It will always scale the whole context you arte in. Like Chris says (as he's just beaten me); when you are NOT in a group (i.e. in the "whole model"), the whole model will be scaled. If you only want to scale certain objects, group them first > edit > and scale it inside their editing context. It will only scale whatever is inside the group/component.