Why vote Obama?
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
With all the chest pounding you guys have been doing, BHO had better win or you're going to be real embarrassed.
Nope, but very dissapointed, I doubt 56 million people are stupid enough to repeat their last mistake.
Do me a favor on election night, watch as many different stations as you can and see where you detect bias. BHO
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I get my real news from PBS, and when I want an opinion I go to MSNBC for a liberal take and Fox for a conservative take.
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I've finally figured out Obama's mass appeal - he's in favor of everything he opposes (or does he oppose everything he supports).
Suported and opposed the troop surge in Iraq
reducing military spending and increasing militiary spending (2:34)
not touching the strategic oil reserve and tapping the strategic oil reserve
He's on the Senate Banking Committee and he's not on the Senate Banking Committee
an undivided Jerusalem should be Israel's capital and its status should be negotiated (divided)
He wants to end the US embargo on Cuba and he wants to maintain the US embargo on Cuba
He thinks free trade is good and bad
He thinks Iran is not a threat and is a threat.Seems that whenever he says "let me be clear..." or "I've always said..." it means he's changing his position again.
Well, after Tuesday, it will all be over (double-entendre intended).
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@solo said:
I doubt 56 million people are stupid enough to repeat their last mistake.
Are you serious? Clinton and Bush both got two terms. So, regardless of which side of the aisle you're on, it should be easy to believe people are that stupid. I mean, look at the insanity of Obama being the Dem candidate in the first place.
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@solo said:
:thumb: Toally agree. (the coal ad)
Was that supposed to be a negative Ad?
Well, it does display Obama's naivete about the environment and the economy in one fell swoop. Anyone who believes CO2 is the causal agent really doesn't get it - CO2 trails temperature change - it doesn't lead it. Thus, his proposal is naive. Furthermore, the backlash on the economy would be enormous, all to impact a fraction of a percent of the world's greenhouse gases, which wouldn't make a bit of difference. Remember, the last ice age ended without human intervention - the earth gets cooler and warmer based on cycles and events much larger than us.
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Rick, I had forgotten how many times Obama has flip-flopped (probably more than Kerry). To those who don't wear rose colored glasses, this is a transparent way to lure votes from those who aren't paying attention. EDITED
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Um... I think not, Mccain is the candidate that has won the flip-flop award, in fact he wins the 'sell your soul' award for not only changing his views but also his principles.
here is just a few, there are many more.-
McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but has since decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks. (Indeed, McCain has now hired Falwell’s debate coach.)
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McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
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In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
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McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.
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McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.
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McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.
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McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and won’t back the same provision he sponsored just a couple of years ago.
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McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
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McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
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McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
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And now he’s both for and against overturning Roe v. Wade.
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Congratulations. You have established that both candidates are either liars, hypocrites or both. What a revelation.
I'm with Ron on this one. I would vote for a third alternative candidate (or not at all, if no suitable alternative is available) rather than vote for either of these political careerists.Regards
Mr S -
@solo said:
Um... I think not, Mccain is the candidate that has won the flip-flop award, in fact he wins the 'sell your soul' award for not only changing his views but also his principles.
here is just a few, there are many more.What do you mean, you "think not"? With what are you disagreeing? I only wish I could accuse Obama of abandoning his (Marxist) principles. If I could, I don't think I wouldn't oppose him quite as much...
As for the "flip-flop award", it must go to Obama. McCain may have had more changes in position over the long-term, but it's only because he has more history in government. When Obama backpedals within 24 hours (Jerusalem), it's clear he's the flip-flop king.
BTW, I didn't mention Obama's flip-flops on drugs, energy, guns, illegal immigration, Iraq, Israel, legalizing marijuana, lobbyist influence, Marxism, offshore drilling, patriotism, public finance, religion, single payer healthcare, socialized medicine, spending, or terrorism. Regardless, it's all moot.
@solo said:
- McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.
Good thing. McCain-Feingold was a disaster. Not that the general idea of campaign finance reform is bad, but it was a dumb implementation. I'd like to think he figured out that what was well-intentioned actually was a bad idea. Like the old Dakota saying, when you find yourself riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. Unfortunately, politicians usually apply any number of other, less sensible strategies, like
- Buying a stronger whip.
- Changing riders.
- Accusing the other party of killing the horse.
- During elections, claiming the opponent's horse is more dead.
- Appointing a congressional committee to study the horse.
- Increasing the standards for riding dead horses.
- Creating a government-funded training program to increase riding ability.
- Comparing the state of dead horses in today's environment.
- Creating a new entitlement program to fund disadvantaged riders of dead horses.
- Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
- Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
- Declaring that the horse is better, faster, and cheaper when dead.
- Revisiting the performance requirements for horses.
- Promoting the dead horse to a cabinet-level position.
- Spending a trillion dollars to bail out gamblers who bet on dead horses.adapted from http://soli.inav.net/~catalyst/Humor/dhorse.htm
@solo said:
- McCain gave up on his signature policy issue, campaign-finance reform, and won’t back the same provision he sponsored just a couple of years ago.
ditto my above comment, since you apparently dittoed yours.
Well, time to go vote. May the best dead horse win...
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Obama, Marxist principles? Hm.
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@unknownuser said:
Obama, Marxist principles? Hm.
From those according to their ability, to those according to their need. The big Obama give away.
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Hi RickW,
Marxism means nothing to most Americans.
In Europe, many regard it as a popular way of looking like a "cool rebel".These are best described as "useful idiots".
Visit: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1
A Soviet defector explains how liberals and left-wing idealists are used.Because of the collapse of the old Soviet Union, liberals and left-wing idealists will try and convince you that there is no longer any threat. Ho-Hum.
Regards
Mr S -
It may seem an obvious point, but how exactly is a video over 20 years old relevant to the world today? That was from another political age; it might as well be an interview with Albert Speer.
There may be a few ageing die-hard commies lurking in the woodwork or on university campuses somewhere, but they are as irrelevant an ineffectual as this completely anachronistic name-calling.
Soviet-style socialism is dead and discredited; outperformed and undermined by western capitalism to the point where it simply imploded. Everyone with any sense and any influence in the west knows that. They were even having to import advanced office equipment by the backdoor, just so that they could get hold of the silicon chips and reprogram them for their missile guidance systems.This is just pure bogeyman under the bed stuff. We'll be getting scare stories on Islamofascists and taqiyya next.
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@alan fraser said:
This is just pure bogeyman under the bed stuff.
Aye. That's why I responded. Calling Obama a Marxist is just empty rhetorics. And not just because Marxism is dead. Obama may look somewhat leftist in an American context, from a European point of view, he's on the right. Not the far right, obviously, but on the right nevertheless.
Marxist ... please.
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@alan fraser said:
Soviet-style socialism is dead and discredited; outperformed and undermined by western capitalism to the point where it simply imploded.
How true!
Mr S, what is your fear?
My (here in Europe) only fear is that we are too dependent on Russia’s gas and oil resources.
It’s system is as dead as an almost dead horse. The difference between Europe and the USA is that
the USA wants to keep its leading position in the world as a superpower. Unfortunately for the USA not for long. The “threat” does not come from Russia. It will most likely come from big countries like China and India, countries that have just begun to endorse the benefits of capitalism. Already we can see the ever increasing influence of China on the financial market.Wo3Dan
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@alan fraser said:
It may seem an obvious point, but how exactly is a video over 20 years old relevant to the world today? That was from another political age; it might as well be an interview with Albert Speer.
There may be a few ageing die-hard commies lurking in the woodwork or on university campuses somewhere, but they are as irrelevant an ineffectual as this completely anachronistic name-calling.
Soviet-style socialism is dead and discredited; outperformed and undermined by western capitalism to the point where it simply imploded. Everyone with any sense and any influence in the west knows that. They were even having to import advanced office equipment by the backdoor, just so that they could get hold of the silicon chips and reprogram them for their missile guidance systems.This is just pure bogeyman under the bed stuff. We'll be getting scare stories on Islamofascists and taqiyya next.
Just to be clear, I have never said that I believe Obama is a Marxist.
As I have made clear in other threads, I believe Obama and McCain are simply political careerists.
The video clip I provided a link to was to show how political careerists can be "useful idiots".20 year old videos can be just as interesting as literature produced hundreds or thousands of years ago. The Greeks and Romans produced much that is still relevant today. We can discuss what we believe to be relevant. But just because something is old doesn't make it irrelevant. And yes, even watching an interview with Albert Speer can provide useful insights.
I would suggest that Western captialism won only the economic war against "Soviet-style socialism" (call it what it was, communism), but in the West the left won the political and cultural struggle. That Soviet-style socialism as an economic system is dead and discredited is true, but the recent debacle with the Western capitalist system would hardly suggest it to be a great alternative. Like the Soviet economic system it came very close to imploding. In fact, you could argue that it did implode and that it is only being kept up and running with smoke and mirrors.
No political, economic or cultural system lasts forever.
They are all replaced by, or evolve in to something new.There are indeed many die-hard commies still lurking in our universities.
There are also a surprising number of leading members of New Labour who also used to be members of communist and other assorted extreme left wing movements.
Oh, I know, I know, they all grew up and left behind those silly childish thoughts and became moderates.
Amazing isn't it how only left-wing extremists can reform and become pillars of the establishment. Similar to how only left-wing terrorists can become University lecturers.
Of course, only nasty, small minded, ring-wing bigots point these things out.Because of political correctness (a cultural and political victory for the left) I will avoid going on to discuss the issue of Islam.
Regards
Mr S
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