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    Do humans have a free will?

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    • david_hD Offline
      david_h
      last edited by

      I have purposely avoided these discussions because they tend to get rather rancorous or at the least it is very difficult to explain (for me anyway) a belief system, the beliefs that I have and I cherish in this kind of a forum. But when this question was posed, I couldn't resist chiming in a bit. I love to clown around with you --my friends--on this web site forum (now I am sounding like McCain 😒 ) but seriously. . .I would love for you all to know about my faith and my beliefs. Please look at this link here and hopefully you will get a taste of what is important to me. I know it's true and I love it.

      Why Am I Here?

      If I make it look easy...It is probably easy

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      • P Offline
        PeterCharles
        last edited by

        Of course I do, just as long as I agree with 'er indoors!

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        • DanielD Offline
          Daniel
          last edited by

          Only indoors, Peter?

          My avatar is an anachronism.

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          • StinkieS Offline
            Stinkie
            last edited by

            @remus said:

            Id like to think we have, but we dont know, and as far as i can tell there is no way of knowing.

            I guess I'm with Remus. Though I must add that, until now, I haven't given this question much thought.

            It's an appealling concept, all in all, having no free will.

            "You have been visiting p*rn sites again!"

            "I had no choice, honey."

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            • Mike LuceyM Offline
              Mike Lucey
              last edited by

              I wonder! Are we not all 'pre-wired / programmed' in our genes,
              to work a certain way OVERALL!

              Do animals have free will? I think its generally considered
              that they don't as they fall into the above category. Are we
              not animals also?

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              • R Offline
                remus
                last edited by

                We are affected by our environment and upbringing though, so our free will can not be entirely 'pre programmed.'

                http://remusrendering.wordpress.com/

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                • C Offline
                  cornel
                  last edited by

                  We aren’t predestinated.., we are only created, 'educated' and 'disciplined’ by God!

                  “God knows everything”, He knows what is the best for us…, not only what is good…:
                  “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” (Romans 12:2)
                  Because of that, apostle Paul decided to ‘walk’ w/ God, like Enoch:
                  “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.” (Philippians 1:21)
                  …or
                  “… It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20)

                  Consequence: God knows our needs and,
                  “… it is God who works in you, both to will and to work …” (Philippians 2:13)
                  ”And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.” (1 Corinthians 1:30”)
                  Those are attributes of true freedom…!

                  Cornel

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                  • CraigDC Offline
                    CraigD
                    last edited by

                    Humans DO have free will!! ...I was told to say that 😉

                    Google SketchUp

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                    • soloS Offline
                      solo
                      last edited by

                      Cornel, you make absolutely no sense!

                      Answer the question with your words, all this cryptic pasting in various fonts and colors is distracting, almost as if you are shouting or preaching (the same thing in some churches)

                      http://www.solos-art.com

                      If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                      • Mike LuceyM Offline
                        Mike Lucey
                        last edited by

                        Could Cornel be looked on as a good example of what I suggest
                        might be the case?

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                        • soloS Offline
                          solo
                          last edited by

                          ”…and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

                          A good defense lawyer will do the same.

                          http://www.solos-art.com

                          If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                          • C Offline
                            cornel
                            last edited by

                            CraigD,
                            re. your "Humans DO have free will!!"

                            There are a few conditions…

                            See an example!:
                            ”…and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free[.” (John 8:32)

                            Cornel

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                            • W Offline
                              watkins
                              last edited by

                              Dear Mike,

                              I'm partly with you on this one, but I believe that our early experiences have a lot to do with how we are. Yes, genetics plays its part, the most obvious being that of appearance: if you are physically attractive then your chances of a successful life are enhanced because society as a whole will favour you. What happens to you in the womb and at birth can also affect your capacity to learn and retain information. Someone who is quick on the uptake is more likely to make it in the world. However, these advantages can be negated by overbearing parents who rob their children of self confidence, and by bad teachers who fail to inspire their pupils. I believe in free will, and I do not think we are hard-wired at birth. The cross-linking happens gradually as we grow up, and that is, to large measure, down to luck. Do you feel lucky?

                              Regards,
                              Bob

                              PS Please note that I left out the word 'punk' in the last sentence, but it was very tempting.

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                              • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                Mike Lucey
                                last edited by

                                Quoting from the Bible is all very fine but is the Bible the
                                'word' of God (The Christian one)or is it a copy of a copy of
                                a copy etc. There is quite strong evidence that this is the
                                case with recent finds in the Middle East! The Roman Catholic
                                Church would appear to have omitted quite a lot of the original
                                text as it did not suit their ends. This however is not what
                                we are talking about here.

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                                • V Offline
                                  Voder Vocoder
                                  last edited by

                                  @daniel said:

                                  For the most part, yes we have freedom of choice, limited by our means and environment. However, when looking at history, I cannot help thinking there have been some individuals whose destiny was predetermined. Also, if one believes in the Bible, then there are times when someone's actions are affected by Divine intervention.

                                  That's what I call covering all the bases.

                                  ~Voder

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                                  • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                    Mike Lucey
                                    last edited by

                                    I understand your take on it Bob and what you say is often the
                                    case. But at the same time people just go down 'certain' roads
                                    regardless of their upbringing.

                                    I remember reading about a case study that involved identical
                                    twins, one going to a privileged home and the other going to
                                    a not so privileged home. I can't remember the exact details
                                    but do remember that both twins ended up with similar outlooks.

                                    I'd say if a character trait is in your genes its going to come
                                    out and manifest itself eventually. We have no more power over
                                    it than we have to 'wish' ourselves to be a certain height, again
                                    predetermined by our genes!

                                    In a certain way this kind of thinking could tie in nicely with
                                    God's / The Creator's Plan? I suppose at the end of the day it
                                    could be argued that all we can do is modify our traits / behavior
                                    to be acceptable in our surroundings? After all self preservation
                                    is top of the list.

                                    Maybe all we have to hand is a 'slide switch' for behavior levels
                                    / scale BUT the particular gene is embedded!

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                                    • Mike LuceyM Offline
                                      Mike Lucey
                                      last edited by

                                      Cornel,

                                      Could you clarify something for me that's been bugging me for a long
                                      time. Okay, I have no argument and accept that you BELIEVE,

                                      1. My Bible is The Word of God, I'm sure about that, because: “For
                                      the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,
                                      piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow,
                                      and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12)

                                      My question is simple! The Bible quote you offer is from (Hebrews 4:12),now
                                      my Biblical knowledge is not great but was Hebrews not written before
                                      the birth of Jesus Christ? From what I can gather the early Bible (first
                                      Testament) is the basis for Judaism and they do not accept the Jesus Christ
                                      was / is God! How can you quote Hebrews to support this? I would genuinely
                                      like to hear your thinking on this in plain English.

                                      Regarding your statement that we are not animals and bare in mind that
                                      there is little difference between us and chimps, gene wise, what exactly
                                      are we in your opinion?

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                                      • C Offline
                                        chango70
                                        last edited by

                                        Humans are genetically, environmentally and socially conditioned animals. There are experienments in the 80s that showed that our unconscious 'acted' before we are consciously aware (by 0.5s through brain imaging) of our effort in decision making. Even David Hume said that our rationality are slave to our passions. The question shouldn't be do we have 'free will' as though so called 'free will' actually exists outside of our complex and dynamic interaction with our current and historical conditions, but rather to what extent can we exercise self-determination given our complex and dynamic interactions with our preconditions.

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                                        • soloS Offline
                                          solo
                                          last edited by

                                          @unknownuser said:

                                          Re. “animals”, at first, they have no spirit…!

                                          Really and we do?

                                          got proof of that one?, now proof not jibberish from your book now.

                                          http://www.solos-art.com

                                          If you see a toilet in your dreams do not use it.

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                                          • C Offline
                                            cornel
                                            last edited by

                                            Mike,

                                            1. Re. your question:
                                              “…was Hebrews not written before the birth of Jesus Christ?"
                                              No. “Hebrews” means an letter of apostle Paul to Hebrews people.

                                            2. Re. your remark: “…Judaism … do not accept the Jesus Christ”
                                              If they accept or not, “…the word of the Lord remains forever.” (1 Peter 1:25)

                                            3. Re. “animals", at first, they have no spirit…!

                                            Cornel

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