Rendering software comparison

Stinkie · 9 Jan 2008, 23:26

Oooh, a li'l contest.

We should really keep Sepo indoors. He just can't resist hassling the neighbours.

I'm pretty curious about the outcome. But shouldn't the setup time count too?

Fletch · 10 Jan 2008, 05:03

Stinkie wrote: "I have tried KT at maxed out settings..."

Well, this is the common mistake of new users with Kerkythea (mine too! ) ... people think (quite naturally) "higher settings must be 'better'" When in actuality it is important to understand what all those settings mean. And if one does not, then they are better off sticking to the 'presets' as their aid/friend/guide.

I have done many, many... and yes - many - test renders with various methods and settings in VIZ scanline, VIZ radiosity, Mental Ray, Vue Infinite 5 and 6, and Kerkythea. I can tell you Kerkythea gives me the best quality with fastest set up and ease of use/material mapping & creation... and I have gotten just as good results in 30mins at 2800px on PM+FG low preset in KT as I got in 24hrs with MLT... it ALL DEPENDS ON THE SCENE AND THE LIGHTING AND MATERIALS.

The key is knowing the 'optimum' settings... a professional workflow is to do test renders small and very low qual. settings, and slowly work your way to bigger renders/higher quality until you know what the settings will do without needing so many test renders.

Comparing speed of Kerkythea and Podium is both silly and pointless IMHO. Podium IS USING Kerkythea, but since it is inside SU is obviously much easier and quicker to use... TBD has done a good job 'optimizing' the settings for you, so you don't have to do all the testing/trials to actually learn the program yourself... you just get the fun of rendering.

If Podium makes you and your clients happy, and you're having fun - well THAT'S WHAT MATTERS!

If you want to have choice to render the exact same scene with biased or unbiased methods, hundreds of advanced options, and soon to be much much more... then perhaps keep Kerkythea handy... but really, they serve two different 'audiences'. Podium is for people who want to just stick with SU and not have to "go-back-and-forth" and who do not want to have to think about all the other info available in Kerkythea.

Trying to compare them is, again, IMHO, both pointless and silly.
1-they both have the same engine - KT
2-you would have to make sure every single setting is the same in both of them... which you cannot be sure of
3-what's the point? oh yeah, being happy rendering... and you can be happy with either of them! there's your answer... they both win.

Love, Fletch!

Stinkie · 10 Jan 2008, 06:19

Thanks for the explanation, Fletch. I did think "higher is better". Anyway, I also did it out of curiosity ("will my Mac Pro catch fire?"). By now, I've tried some of the presets - those work dandy. Fast, yes.

"If Podium makes you and your clients happy, and you're having fun - well THAT'S WHAT MATTERS!"

I'll slurp coffee to that!

"Trying to compare them is, again, IMHO, both pointless and silly. "

Valid point. But I think Sepo and Frederik both are smart enough to know that - them youngsters just wanna have some fun.

Frederik · 10 Jan 2008, 06:22

To no-ones surprise, I happen to agree with Fletch...

@unknownuser said:

Hmmm.... I can show you scene where Podium will render many times faster than Kerky.

The point I wanted to make was that this can't be true, since the engine behind Podium is Kerkythea...!!

I have high respect for the Podium plug-in, but that's only when it comes to the way TBD have made it... The ease of use, where anybody can make a nice photo realistic render, without knowing anything about renders at all...

On the other hand, I can show many renders made in Kerkythea, which can't be achieved in Podium... Reason for this being that KT have so many much more advanced settings and options, which can't be made with Podium because of the limitations made to make it much easier to use...

@unknownuser said:

OK as you have better idea maybe you should organise the setup...

Doesn't this conflict with your first statement (the one shown above..)..??
You said that you can show a scene, and now you want me to arrange the set-up..??

I can show you some renders made with KT, which you can't achieve in Podium, but what's the point really...??

solo · 10 Jan 2008, 06:33

Good reply Fletch!

IMO the best render app is the one you enjoy and can use with ease and understanding.

Both Podium and KT are based on the same engine so the face off is pointless...if anything wait for Podium version 2 as it will not be KT based.

Happy rendering

Stinkie · 10 Jan 2008, 09:20

Shall we postpone then?

Although it wouldn't be much more than some fun, it would be nice to see Podium 2.0 go up against KT Echo.

Fletch · 10 Jan 2008, 16:05

@solo said:

Good reply Fletch!

thanks, Solo

@solo said:

...wait for Podium version 2 as it will not be KT based.

are you absolutely certain about that?

@unknownuser said:

Shall we postpone then?

Postpone comparing KT to KT? I have thousands of renders comparing KT to KT if you want to see them, let me know... I can post some

guite · 10 Jan 2008, 19:24

Glad to see that KT has a dedicated, jealous team. Its the only render app I have touched since 3d Studio (which version was that...?), now 3ds MAX.

Guite

Frederik · 10 Jan 2008, 19:48

@unknownuser said:

Glad to see that KT has a dedicated, jealous team.

Not sure I get the point here...
We have just been pointing out the fact that the engine behind Podium is Kerkythea...
So what's there to be jealous about..??

Frederik · 10 Jan 2008, 20:02

@solo said:

...if anything wait for Podium version 2 as it will not be KT based.

Very interesting info indeed...
And you're absolutely sure about this..??

What will be the successor..??

Stinkie · 10 Jan 2008, 20:13

That is shrouded in thick layers of mistery.

solo · 10 Jan 2008, 20:14

I am absolutely sure, but being more of a 'Bahaman' I let the dogs out and not the cats.

guite · 11 Jan 2008, 12:22

@frederik said:

Not sure I get the point here...
We have just been pointing out the fact that the engine behind Podium is Kerkythea...
So what's there to be jealous about..??

Frederik,
I don't mean to rub you the wrong way (or any which way for that matter ). I had struggled to find the right word for what I wanted to say.

I had used the word "jealous" as an expression of possesiveness, as in a jealous girlfriend or as in the third definition in Merriam Webster dictionary:

@unknownuser said:

3: vigilant in guarding a possession <new colonies were jealous of their new independence — Scott Buchanan>

Guite

Gaieus · 11 Jan 2008, 12:26

I also guessed you were uing the word in some similar sense... like "anxiously protective". But then I1m not a native speaker so sometimes I also have problems with "fine tuning" the expressions I use...

Frederik · 11 Jan 2008, 15:08

Alright... No worries...
Like yourself, English isn't my native language...
I was unsure about what you meant and just didn't get the point...
But thanks for clarification...

Rob D · 15 Jan 2008, 09:32

The first few results for the Great Sketchup Render Test are in! I've posted the images and render times below for you to make your own comparrisons. A fuller review and explanation of methodology will be on my blog (http://provelo.co.uk/?p=20), but I've currently just got podium written up. Basically (i.e there's more to it), I take the same scene, lit just by the Sketchup sun, and see what the results are with minimal tweaking. Hope this comparrison proves useful! Here's the first few...

IRender
![IRender high setting, 25 seconds. Needed infill of ambient light as it was unable to calculate the light "bounce".](/uploads/imported_attachments/MgOO_IRender_high_25s.jpg "IRender high setting, 25 seconds. Needed infill of ambient light as it was unable to calculate the light "bounce".")

Podium

Vue

Rob D · 23 Jan 2008, 17:27

Kerkythea

So the first four are done. The results so far tabulated:

Podium 18:47
Irender 0:25
Vue Esprit 2:12
Kerkythea 3:25

Remember, this test is to ascertain a benchmark for use of a renderer specifically with Sketchup, and with minimal experience and setup time, using presets where possible. These figures are to produce a "good" image with minimal tweaking, not the best possible image the software can offer. I think it's fair to say the IRender image failed this particular test since it couldn't handle global illumination i.e it's just a raytrace renderer. Vue needed a few cheats to correct the lighting and the scene needed to be re-framed within Vue because camera wasn't imported. It was the quickest and it will shine, I imagine, with exterior renders.
Podium and Kerkythea gave the most pleasing lighting for a similar amount of setting up. Both retained the Sketchup camera view which can be essential to your workflow. But the speed difference...

sepo · 23 Jan 2008, 17:39

This is completely irrelevant. How can you say similar amount of set up time. Podium works within SU and KT need to import scene from the SU. Same thing apply to Vue....
Also it all depends on presets. I don't know which one you used for the Podium and how does that compare to any other presets of other render engine. I am afraid this does not help as paints distorted picture. You say the best light was from Podium and KT. That KT image looks washed up (consider it a bad render) and Vue in mu mind looks better.

solo · 23 Jan 2008, 18:20

This is ridiculous, how can you be equally astute with all these engines to even consider making an informed comparison? You obviously do not know how to use podium or irender well enough to even consider such a comparison.

Below are three of many Podium renders I have done recently that have taken less time to render than your very bland and simple example scene.

7 minutes

14 minutes

11 minutes

Now consider the time saved by using a program within SU without the complicated lighting, exports and material setups.

Your bias is obvious as well as your inability to use a simple app like Podium properly.

Stinkie · 23 Jan 2008, 18:41

Did anyone mention Podium's ease of use yet? Not to be overlooked, I think. Ease of use = speed and effiency.