KAPOW! ...and ....PHOOMPH!
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Its friday what do you expect Gia?
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This:
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Not to bother anyone....but is the beer talk not supposed to be happening in the off-topic section? Thread hijacking?
...just kidding
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Well Coen,
I won't leave the forum and I will keep on contributing to the forum in a way that suits me. (general section etc...).
I just won't be posting my work (and play) in the gallery section anymore.Cheers and you all have a fine weekend,
Kwistenbiebel
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As a board member with one voice amongst many, I feel obligated to give an opinion on this thread.
A) Is there a mission statement or guidelines statement for what methods employed to produce an image are acceptable. If so can you please direct me to that statement so I can be assured that I follow your board guidelines and that all board members also have a chance to review and comply with the submission guidelines.
B) It would seem to me that the corner bar can be an outlet for or catchall for topics that are not necessarily appropriate for a particular sub forum, however in my opinion this particular post seems to be fine as a post in the Renders sub-forum, just my opinion.
C) As administrators of a (multi-user multifaceted many sided) cluster of people you must balance the need to seperate the discussion into distinguishable and distinct sub forums, while not sub dividing it to the extent that you are left with forum topics so narrow as to only include very few "acceptable" on topic posts. IE: even though this is a SketchUP forum we indeed do talk about many other subjects, and even though the sub forum has the topic of Renders Gallery, That is still a fairly Broad category which can encompass many different interpretations of acceptable posts.
In my opinion if we attempt to further subdivide the categories like this for instance
forum category:
"images generated by only native modeling in sketchup and only using a pluging renderer with no post processing"
Images generated by any combination of modeling or importing geomotry created in any other modeling app which were then rendered with a sketchup plugin and post processing was used"
Anyway you can see my point in the end as long as the poster can explain the process used to create a particular image and Sketchup was one part of that creation process, It is my opinion that that image and post should belong in a gallery subforum and not the corner bar. The "community" part ot "SCF" should be willing to allow a member to post his or her images to a gallery forum for discussion. The corner bar for me is a place to go to discuss topics that may not even be related to sketchup or at least I would not expect to see a post there where someone is sharing their creative images for review and comment.
anyway I do hope that all parties can agree that the "community" aspect of the forums is important and continue to have well thought out and meaningful discussions for the betterment of the community.
Regards
Phil
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First of all, this is SILLY, really SILLY. The last time I checked, there were starving children in the world, meaning much more time and effort should be placed on more important matters, not this. Second, Phil is quite clear in his opinion and I like his reasonings. This type of "fine line issue" is just way to darn critical for me. Sounds to me like some people have become way to haughty in their sketchup attitude.
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I thought you would! Bottom Line, Its stupid to stop in and act like something so terrible has happened, IT'S THE RENDER GALLERY! Place a strict rule for everyone to read about not posting anything modeled in any other program except SU, it won't matter because most everyone here post something that has to do with SU in one form or another. This is just snobbish. Loosen up!
Edit: It's hard core attitudes like this that turn so many off from enjoying this type of interaction with other that have similar interest. Really, lets stop this silliness!
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This thread in all fairness should be moved to an appropriate section as the actual topic of a Podium render is not being discussed, rather the semantics of the origin of the mesh. As mentioned on this thread, I too import meshes as needed when SU limitations in organic modeling compels me to do so in order to reach my results. I can and have modeled many organic forms that took yonks to achieve, but never good enough to compliment a scene as SU just does not YET have the tools best suited for such workflow.
I must admit I have not really read the rules of participation, not even sure there are any. My assumption is that if it was used within the SU software like posing and texturing it is fine, even if the original mesh originated from a third party program.
Is it possible to get a guideline on posting? What percentage must be SU based for it to be acceptable? Would adding a new section for minimal SU renders help?
I personally believe this is all a misunderstanding really, the ‘Female curves’ posting was as I understand a posting about a curved studio setup in SU where components can be posed to eliminate corner shadows. And this ‘Kapow’ thread is a folly posting which even though not modeled in SU has been posed, textured and rendered within SU.
I would hate for Biebel to stop posting his works as I get much inspiration from his experimentation.
So…to Biebel I urge to reconsider and to Coen, please facilitate these works even if it’s in a new section.
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WOW! It may seem as though I'm blowing this out of proportion, I'm not! As I have been writing, I have been chuckling at the same time because I have not run into this sort of thing being an issue at all. Believe me, I truly understand and agree with not posting images that are strictly modeled in programs that are not SU, what would be the point, take those to the proper forums. This issue is really not a problem, Biebel retrieved a model from Google Sketchup 3D Warehouse, used SU in composition and rendered with Sketchup Podium, seems fitting for the forum.
Also, for all I know maybe myself and others have retrieved something from the 3D warehouse or the various other means without knowing the origin of the original modeling and posted it! BIG DEAL, it may happen. I give credit to Biebel for not just claiming it was modeled in SU as I'm sure there may be some that due, hopefully not. I really don't mind the idea of a model taken from another program into SU, then rendered with Podium, as long as the person posting discloses what he has done. Or possibly the rule should be no other models except SU models, not sure. I have never posted in the SU Community forums models that were made with other programs, this is really not a concern for me. What is a concern for me is Biebel, I would also be disappointed to see him not post his work, I to am inspired by his work. Whatever works out I'm sure it will all be good.
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Hi guys,
I just come in after a pleasant night out (yes Gaeius there was 'some' beer
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This has become quite a lively discussion.
Not bad, a good discussion is cool from time to time, certainly on a friday to let some steam off before entering the weekend.I wanted to say to Coen that I understand your concerns and that being part of a team that runs a big community like this one isn't always the easiest job, but you guys are doing it well imho.
Don't let a difference in opinion demotivate you to keep on doing the job.
Things like this happen. You shared your opinion and I did likewise.
Whether renderings are posted here or elsewhere on the forum isn't that important. (I am sure you guys will sort things out).
Being able to share opinions though I consider very important.
The fact that people react to this in a passionate way is proof that this community is alive!Cheers,
kwistenbiebel -
Coen
I was simply trying to illustrate that if you wanted to have the "title" of forum represent all the intricate details of what are the acceptable methods the poster used to create the image than the title of the forum would need to be so complex. However the forum topic has a much more broad title "Renders Gallery" and it is my opinion that under that broad umbrella that that title infers that the images posted are acceptable.
If there is a guideline for the methods used to create and acceptable image than I could be wrong. If there are guidelines created and available then could you or one of the moderators show me how to access them.
Thanks
And indeed I agree that a discussion such as this is important and will help refine and shape how a community of people converse with each other. We must all agree that we are different people with different beliefs and likes dislikes etc. In a community of diverse people there must be a set of guiding principles that the moderators impose so that the majority of the community can in fact converse with each other in a recognized acceptable manner. I am simply trying to determine if you have established those principles for this particular forum and the entire site in general.
My post was obviously "opinionated" I can not separate my opinions from my comments. However I do hope that you or the moderators will have a discussion and provide the members with guidance on what are the acceptable methods behind the creation of and image that is acceptable as a post to the "Renders Gallery".
I do hope that you understand that by simply being here and giving you my opinions should indicate to you that I appreciate all of the work and efforts that went into creating this forum. I simply would not be here and would not be typing this message if I did not care about the forum.
So in a nutshell:
I disagree with those that think the methods used to create the Kapow and Phoomph images are not acceptable for this forum and if no specific guidelines exist to the contrary than they should be created so that this does not occur in the future without a documented guideline to fall back on as a reference for acceptable or unacceptable posts.
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@unknownuser said:
Coen
I disagree with those that think the methods used to create the Kapow and Phoomph images are not acceptable for this forum and if no specific guidelines exist to the contrary than they should be created so that this does not occur in the future without a documented guideline to fall back on as a reference for acceptable or unacceptable posts.
I 100% Agree! Well said Phil.
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It's an honor to be a part of a community of people who can share their own unique thoughts and still be a welcome part of the community. We will all benefit from exposure to the thoughts and ideas and creativity etc. of the other members. In particular for me as a sole proprietor working in isolation. This is my break room. it's where I go to chat and bounce ideas off of other people.
I am a firm believer in keeping things simple. As it is we have two gallery sections.
- SketchUP only
- created in SketchUP and RENDEREED in a third party app
I think there is room for a third Gallery section kind of the all other option
- Sketchup was used for some part of the image creation
I do like the idea of seeing images where sketchup was used as one component of the workflow regardless of how small. This can highlight some of the unique capabilities of sketchup. As it has been said we all use a multitude of applications in the pursuit of finding the best tool suited to allow our creativity out. SketchUP can indeed be considered just one tool in our tool belt. Let's agree to accomodate and welcome people who have a unique way to use SU in their creative pursuits.
Again Coen I would personally like to congratulate you on the sucessful creation of the SCF it has become a home for those SU regulars like myself who for what ever reason have not fully made the switch to the GOOGLE groups. Job WELL DONE. err but you may have to reign in us members once in a while.
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Amen...
I agree that this should be put to a rest now...
I feel confident when saying, that we won't see renders of models, where SU hasn't been at least part of the project... Why would anyone want to do that, except if they want to show-off...
If a model is made in another application and rendered, people should post their work in a forum belonging to the application used for modelling...
Having said that, I do recall postings in the "old" SU Forum, where some users occasionally posted renders modelled using other applications... I.e. Viz models...
I can only take myself as an example... Personally I only use SU for modelling, but when it comes to renders, I do import i.e. Xfrog trees and scrub for the surroundings... But the model of typically a house have been made using SU... And I assume that such renders will be OK, as long as I don't post a render solely of the Xfrog trees...
But good discussion here...
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Great, Coen, Great, you the man!
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@frederik said:
... And I assume that such renders will be OK, as long as I don't post a render solely of the Xfrog trees...
Sorry to clip so much good info from your quote Frederick
and zoom in on a detail, but I can see benefits in showing a render of just an Xfrog tree.
It can actually be very educational because a lot is involved to get it right. What import settings to use to get it 'clean' in Sketchup. How to setup clipmaps for the leaves etc....I can see the benefits for people that want to add a nice tree in their renderings of Sketchup models. The same goes for adding 3d people or 3d cars in scenes.
Learning things from one another is one of the ingredients of the glue that holds a community like this together.
Cheers,
Kwistenbiebel -
Coen
Sorry that is an American expression
http://homepage.smc.edu/quizzes/cheney_joyce/rainreignrein.html
I meant the expression related the the leather strap used to control a horse.
To explain the analogy:
the forum and all its members is the horse.
and the creator/moderator/administrator is the one that sits on the horse and controls the Reins. Someone or some people will need to "Rein in" or guide the forum from time to time.
To use another expression related to horses:
I think we have beaten this horse to death now.
However it's snowing here in Minneapolis and a nice sleigh ride would be fun.
heheh as you all get to know me you will find that I use expressions and analogies alot. unfortunately many of these expressions and analogies don't translate to other languages very well.
kwistenbiebel I'm glad to see that you are still here communicating with us.
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@kwistenbiebel said:
What import settings to use to get it 'clean' in Sketchup. How to setup clipmaps for the leaves etc....
I can see the benefits for people that want to add a nice tree in their renderings of Sketchup models. The same goes for adding 3d people or 3d cars in scenes.
Learning things from one another is one of the ingredients of the glue that holds a community like this together.
I fully agree with you regarding the above, Kwistenbiebel... However, the thing is, that I don't import the Xfrog trees directly into SU...
I haven't even dared trying, because of the high poly count, but I would assume that it will be more or less impossible to orbit the SU model...I add trees, scrub and grass directly in KT...
Doesn't work with current official version, but works excellent and very easy with next release which we hope to be able to release this month... -
strange thread...
So i use sketchup for make "dummy"(like some people make low-poly dummy in 3dsmax or silo for future improvement in mudbox, zbrush)... look at name of programm - Sketch-UPSo @Last dev.team don't want work at high-polygonal techincs - there are their rights....
And all post-work i will make in Cinema4D(or 3dsmax), autocad, i can: smooth models using nurbs(some plug-ins), xrog-imports, rendering(use maxwell, fry and ect) organic models...
And i think Max G. made his models in poser, using interposer(special cinema4d's plug-in, exchange data between c4d and poser)
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