Wishlist for Layout 2018
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Thought I'd get a just on this seeing SU 2017 came out this morning.
Here we go again...
MOVE Tool - I was a big advocate for the move tool in previous releases and would still like to see some advancement on it. Rather than it be part of the SELECT tool, giving it its own identity would allow for much more freedom and hence workability.
LINE Tool; its options for line thicknesses have been in points rather than units. Can we have the option for units as well [in my case, millimeters?]
Text Baseline - The ‘baseline’ for text should be the baseline of lettering rather than a corner of the text box IMO. When I want to snap to a grid or object to inference to the text is not lined up but rather the textbox.
The STYLE eye dropper - it should work so that when it inherits the selected style of line, text, etc it also inherits the objects layer property....
I believe so given that if I’m sampling say a dashed line that represents a ceiling or roof above I will want to put it on the 'Linework' layer. Same with TEXT: if I want to sample TEXT chances are I want that on the same layer as all the other text... The same goes for site boundary lines, elevation height lines, etc. The only thing missing is the ability to sample Layer info which saves me the step [and quite a lot of times a little forgetfulness!!]
I just think that this makes sense.
ROTATE Tool - as with the MOVE tool, we should be able to rotate precisely. Here’s a good example of once something has been rotated, it is impossible to rotate to a specific angle:
As you can see if I want to rotate a north point to a specific angle I can’t pick and align the north line to where I want it to be. Maybe a ‘3-way rotate is the way to go and this is how it should be done IMO.
- Activating the ROTATE tool allows selection of one or more entities. As with the MOVE tool the standard snap functions of SU are available to pick from.
- Pick and place where desired.
- Once placed pick again the origin of yoru rotate [while everything is still selected] then the target rotate point then simply ROTATE!!!
DIM leaders - we need to be able to set our extension above and extension below the DIM line. It has long been a user setting in CAD and should be in LO also. Gives the user the ability to customize his / her own style….
I can't tell you how time consuming it is having to edit each dimension string to an appropriate length. I generally grab the end of the DIM line and inference it down the DIM text; seems to look right.
And for those of you who think you've read this before is just a cut down list of my 2016 wishlist....
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Just so all this is in the same place, here is a thread from March 14, 2014...
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13%26amp;t=56754
#2 and #4 have seen improvements, but other than that, my list is as relevant as ever, I think.
Here's a nice list Richard put together:
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13%26amp;t=62300
How about a Sept 2010 discussion:
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12%26amp;t=30881
It is great to see the items that have been improved since then, but we are talking almost 7 years and some items on this list could still be very useful!
All that being said, I think LO 2017 is the single best update we have seen and LO is, by far better than it has ever been before. Associative dimensions is, in a word, AWESOME! And an offset tool is great. And a tables tool is a very nice addition. And dwg export has improved significantly. Honestly, I have a a great sense of encouragement for future releases after this release; Trimble is obviously giving the LO team assets to develop and improve the software and the LO team is, in my opinion, on the right path.
Still plenty of great ideas out there for future development however...
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Well said, Chuck. LO 2017 is in its best shape ever! Just need to catch up on a number of those 'long term' fixes and functions in the next release I reckon.
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I agree with most your suggestions Andrew, but sampling pulling objects to the same layer, HMMMM? I think this could be problematic for most. Certainly if you style by layer, which I imagine is your workflow - then this makes sense. But I wouldn't make this a default, I'd probably add a modifier. As in the case the user doesn't want to change layers they are then forced to drag back, and if this drags items to lower layers; items could fall behind fills or solid objects and the issue compounded!
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Layout should allow decimal dimensioning out to .00000 just like in SU (which goes to .000000). Why should decimal inches be constrained to 1/4" accuracy?
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I would have expected most functions requiring a particular style would be put on the same layer, Rich. Think Text, linework, symbols, fills, etc. Isn't all your body text on the same layer so you can isolate it if you want? If so, the layer hierarchy should be set in your template and never change [or very rarely].
If I want to sample my general dimension style I'll want them all to be on the same layer so I can control them. Again, that layer will be located in order of building up the final image....The same goes for Scrapbook for that matter. God knows why you can apply a layer to something in your scrapbook file them when it comes into your drawing space it doesn't bring that info with it???
My screen space surrounding the page is filled with things I want to use for that particular series of drawings. [see attached] How easy would it be if all of those things [text, lines, fills, yarda, yarda] could bring their layer properties with them when sampled?
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@utiler said:
I would have expected most functions requiring a particular style would be put on the same layer, Rich. Think Text, linework, symbols, fills, etc. Isn't all your body text on the same layer so you can isolate it if you want? If so, the layer hierarchy should be set in your template and never change [or very rarely].
Mate I totally understand WHY you have adopted this workflow, but that is because you've been forced to by Layout's inherent lack of "Object Style Management". If you have ever used InDesign you would be very aware of what such a feature can add, and it doesn't rely on layer assignment. You can assign multiple attributes to a "style" and all objects assigned this "style" will be updated with a change in that style. Similarly the swatch feature there means that colours themselves can be updated globally which will update the style.
So in the want for a better workflow you have chosen to work around this lack of functionality, to permit everything assigned a layer to be selected and updated. This however must result in a layer stack that represents say just a line's weight instead of it's actual function - say "site boundary".
So for me yes, right now the function of the sample tool dragging to the same layer makes sense to your workflow, but may have significant issues to others who don't work that way, and hense why a modifier (eg: shift+) would be warranted. And the bigger picture that the Trembling guys address the overwhelming need for a style management and assignment system. Even MS WORD has such a feature.
@utiler said:
The same goes for Scrapbook for that matter. God knows why you can apply a layer to something in your scrapbook file them when it comes into your drawing space it doesn't bring that info with it???
TOTALLY with you there mate!
@utiler said:
My screen space surrounding the page is filled with things I want to use for that particular series of drawings. [see attached] How easy would it be if all of those things [text, lines, fills, yarda, yarda] could bring their layer properties with them when sampled?
Again this is a nice idea, though how much better would be if an object dragged from the scrapbook maintained it's layer assignment, whilst it's assigned style was updated to any modification made to that style in the current document.
So in the end mate, there is a bigger world out there that function could be sourced from to reduce some rather time consuming workarounds.
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@utiler said:
My screen space surrounding the page is filled with things I want to use for that particular series of drawings. [see attached] How easy would it be if all of those things [text, lines, fills, yarda, yarda] could bring their layer properties with them when sampled?
I do exactly the same thing you do... almost actually. My reference objects are at the top and left of the paper sheet, as when you change paper size it stretches down and right...
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@jql said:
@utiler said:
My screen space surrounding the page is filled with things I want to use for that particular series of drawings. [see attached] How easy would it be if all of those things [text, lines, fills, yarda, yarda] could bring their layer properties with them when sampled?
I do exactly the same thing you do... almost actually. My reference objects are at the top and left of the paper sheet, as when you change paper size it stretches down and right...
Of course, smarty pants!!
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@richard said:
So in the end mate, there is a bigger world out there that function could be sourced from to reduce some rather time consuming workarounds.
So with InDeisgn, Rich you don't keep all your similar elements on a particular layer? Like:
Linework
Dimensions
Text
Symbols
Etc..If you were to work in a CAD program again (heaven forbid!!
) would you not want to group these elements together?Maybe rather than a modifier key, we need to actually have it as a preferences setting...?
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@utiler said:
So with InDeisgn, Rich you don't keep all your similar elements on a particular layer?
Mate Indesign is like Layout on some serious steroids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Layers
Provide as they should be for display level hierarchy or control of on / off significance.
Object Styles
Can be applied to any object: Rectangle / circle / text box / imported PDF / imported image / imported DWG / imported EPS. You can control stroke style / fill style / fill gradient / bevel / feather style / shadow cast / internal glow / external glow / transparency etc.
Changes made to any object styles are global, ie: Any object assigned a style will update to any changes made to the style.
Paragraph Styles
Can be applied independent of object styles. Can be applied to a text box or individual paragraph. You can control font, font size, font weight, font spacing, italics slant, font width scale / height scale, kerning, tracking, leading, baseline shift, paragraph spacing / indents, justification, tabs, numbers or bulleting.
Changes made to any paragraph styles are global, ie: Any text assigned a style will update to any changes made to the style.
Swatch Colours
Swatches in much the same way layout can save swatches, though you can change the swatch to update the instances they are assigned. EG; if I assigned a background fill to bedrooms of say orange, if I edit the swatch to green, any objects painted with the orange swatch will be updated to green. This will effect anything irrespective of it's object or paragraph style.
Swatches control the colours of strokes (lines), fills, gradients (where assigned via swatches), text and text outlines.
BTW you can edit the names of Object Styles, Paragraph Styles and Swatches to ensure their assignments are understood.
BTW again, if I drag in a PDF to a page, I can also control the layers of the inserted PDF on page via a right context click.
Mate, I limit the work I do in Layout for these reasons, I can achieve SO MUCH more in Indesign. And I haven't even touched on tables and assignment of cell styles. I use Layout to it's limits then output a PDF. In Indesign I just click update to the PDF so the workflow is one click off seamless.
Oh and BTW again again, none of these settings or workflows are difficult OR demanded. Anyone could still work in the 1990's way that layout is set up to now!
@utiler said:
If you were to work in a CAD program again (heaven forbid!!
) would you not want to group these elements together?Mate I haven't used AutoCad since version 2.1, but NO, if it pushed me to that workaround it fails.
@utiler said:
Maybe rather than a modifier key, we need to actually have it as a preferences setting...?
I still like the idea of a modifier, as even for you there maybe instances you don't want to drag to layer, and the issues then again exaggerated.
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Mate, if you want even the most basic insight into how styles could work in LayOut, open up WORD and start assigning text / paragraph or object styles - doing this in WORD is not at all intuitive but will give you some idea of it's power. You may recall from the PPB days, I then did all my design in WORD. Layout certainly changed this but only on the ability to stretch to size, or assign layers, otherwise it was a step backwards.
Oh and BTW - get Indesign, you will never again write a document in WORD again, and then wonder what shite you've been dealing with for the last 10 years! Admittedly, there will be a bit of a learning curve - 10-15 minutes, about the same time it takes to put a table in a word doc.
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Cheers for the overview, Rich. Might have to look at what InDesign can do for my work. So many bloody programs from renderers, image editors, work processors... so days I just want to pick up a pen!
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@utiler said:
Cheers for the overview, Rich. Might have to look at what InDesign can do for my work. So many bloody programs from renderers, image editors, work processors... so days I just want to pick up a pen!
Mate, you can then imagine things this end, doing a LOT of marketing, print, website stuff on top of that! My mind these days seems in total overload. But truthfully Indesign took a lot of time away from all that as SO much can be done so easily.
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