How has your music listening changed over the years...?
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@Hieru
It seems you pretty know what I was talking about. CDs
A 16 bit 44.1, and 16 bits should be enough for dynamics. The theory says so.
However, this theory isn't quite right. Some 6 bits are needed for headroom. Algorithms/filters/calculations need it.
Some 4 bits in the lower band of dynamics is also a bit useless. It sounds like the old PCM synthesizers.
So what left?
Now, add this well known compression/maximizers, music up to 16 bits (0 db). Then, Digital to audio converters having trouble handling this information.
CDs don't sound well, whatever player you use. After extracting to a PC hard drive, this machine (VIA a USB or firewire or anything new) becomes a perfect transport (via a perfect bit app player)
Newer D to A DAC chips can add a 3-4 db headroom, great to hear these compressed maximized productions. (see benchmark DAC 2) . Miracles never happen though. The musical information already distorted in the studios (mastering).
It isn't the appropriate forum to add more details about it. I worked (and still working as freelancer) on the mastering and remixing procedure. I'm also experienced on how to deceive listeners. Pitty.
So far away from the days of vinyl, of real to real tapes…
High Definition audio stream is another matter of course.
We bought vinyls, cassettes, CDs, DSDs, now we have to pay again… not fair, not quite if I may. -
I hear what you are saying Michalis and agree with everything up to a certain point.
Accuracy and precision are only part of the story. In the same way mixing can change the qualities of a recording, the equipment used for playback also adds it's own character to the sound. That's why I like the philosophy behind Naim; they aren't necessarily aiming for accuracy, but rather a dynamic and engaging musical experience.
If anything I think a 100% precise reproduction of a recording could sound very flat and clinical. I could be wrong and I'll have to explore the possibilities when the availability of physical formats becomes an issue.
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Naim = tempo, rhythm, swing…
still remember my old nap 250. Missed it.@unknownuser said:
If anything I think a 100% precise reproduction of a recording could sound very flat and clinical.
Depends on the recording.
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Well that's another problem/issue.
In addition to the overuse of compression and higher recording levels, I have noticed a trend towards mixing recordings in a way that is very neutral.
The best recordings in my view are coming from artists who research and try to reproduce techniques used by studios in 70s, 80s and 90s - I'm thinking of vintage funk, dub and hip-hop.
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As Pete said, you guys have some sick audio components there!! Sounds like you both know what your taking about!!!
I too have an expectation that what I think sounds good is good enough; although when you hear good sounds out of a different system you do hear the difference.
On file formats; what is going to give you the highest quality audio? I think iTunes downloads in mp3 from memory....
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@utiler said:
I think iTunes downloads in mp3 from memory....
That's right, although I can't understand why they don't make ALAC available.
If I do buy a digital only release it's rarely from iTunes. I usually buy direct from the artist/label via Bandcamp, where you have a good choice of formats like ALAC & FLAC (I normally grab both of these: ALAC for iTunes and FLAC for burning to CD). Otherwise I'll use Juno download as they offer WAV format.
I don't have much experience with other formats, so Michalis will probably have a much more informed opinion.
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ALAC or FLAC for downloads.
What about high resolution audio?
You need some equipment to play it right of course.
http://www.hdtracks.com/music/hiresI never use iTunes on the mac.
Audirvana plus is a cheap and bit perfect application. It supports FLAC.Foobar on WIN pcs.
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ALAC, FLAC and WAV are the highest resolution available from most online stores. There needs to be a hi-def revolution before that will change.
For anything better there are only a few outlets and the choice of albums is frankly rubbish. It's HDCD all over again.
Then, as you say, you need the right equipment to get the most out of it.
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@unknownuser said:
There needs to be a hi-def revolution before that will change.
The world is way too mobile and compact for such a revolution, majority of people consume music on a mobile device so size and storage is a factor, secondly online streaming is about to take over.
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I just wish that when i buy a digital download off iTunes that you could have option for CD/Vinyl shipping too. I typically like to have the album in hard copy.
I listen mostly on my old Bose system from CD.
I have a Sony system too with that forgotten MiniDisc format which i actually liked.
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@solo said:
.....secondly online streaming is about to take over.
I have a feeling that streaming will eventually lead to a demand for high-def music. It eliminates the storage issue, so you just need the bandwidth and something good enough to make the most of a higher quality format.
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@rich o brien said:
I just wish that when i buy a digital download off iTunes that you could have option for CD/Vinyl shipping too. I typically like to have the album in hard copy.
That's another good reason to use Bandcamp. Whenever you buy a CD or LP, you get an immediate download link and you can stream your purchase using their app.
An added benefit is that you are often putting money directly in the pockets of artists, without a label taking a cut.
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I have a 5.1 ch Yamaha system and until recently I had a turntable to play my vinyls (my collection consists of a thousand or so vinyl singles and LPs)
Mostly I listen to CD's and downloaded music from my iPod these days. But I miss the rawness of the vinyls though.
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I listened to music through cassette player and tape that was way back a decade. Now, I listen to music through computer device and mobile.
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Thanks for the interesting video - the current state of affairs really is depressing.
Here's hoping his predictions for 2020 arrive ahead of schedule.
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How has my music listening changed? Well, as I spent more time in the studio (at school) it occurred to me that not everyone wants to hear lyrics like "I want to f___ you like an animal" by Nine Inch Nails, so I drifted towards less offensive music and now listen to quite a lot of movie soundtracks, especially at work. But in private I still like to turn the sound up on Metallica or House of Pain.
When I was younger, the local pop radio station was de rigueur (it was that, country, or gospel music on the radio). With the advent of satellite radio and ipods, I no longer know what current pop music is. -
Modern producers and sound technicians should be shamed
Have a look here. you better get a SACD or download a HiDef audio file.
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A historic record recorded just 4 years removed from the dawn of the analogue tape era!Praise for the Analogue Productions LP version of Masterpieces:
"Most highly recommended (the record is now on the QRP presses). It's one of my 'Records to Die For' in the February 2015 Stereophile. You won't have to die to get a copy. $30 will do and it's well worth the money. A true classic both musically and sonically and a historical work of art you can now own." ó Music = 11/11; Sound = 11/11 ó Michael Fremer, AnalogPlanet.com. Read the whole review here.
"The best album ever made by Duke Ellington, which is to say, one of the best albums in jazz ó is also one of his least known. ... now, a leading audiophile record label, Analogue Productions of Salina, Kansas, has brought it out on pristine vinyl (itís also, despite its vintage, one of the best-sounding jazz albums ever), and the time has come to take notice. ... the new, remastered Analogue Productions LP, which is to the CD as a high-def television is to a circa-1980 Trinitron. Played on a good sound system, itís a sonic time machine, hurling you into Columbiaís 30th Street Studio with the Ellington orchestra. Horns sound brassy, drums smack, cymbals sizzle, you hear the air pass through the woodwinds. When saxophones play in harmony, the overtones bloom like a sonic bouquet; when the musicians take a quarter-note pause, you hear them breathe in." ó Fred Kaplan, Slate, Dec. 9, 2014 Read the whole review here.
"Mood Indigo," "Sophisticated Lady," "The Tattooed Bride" & "Solitude" recorded at Columbia's 30th Street Studio on Dec. 19, 1950.
Masterpieces By Ellington shines from an astonishingly brief period of history that gave the recording industry 2 of its greatest achievements ó the introduction of magnetic tape recording & the 33 1/3 LP, or long-playing record.
Four years. That's all it took to go from the discovery by Americans, of German advancements in the field of sound recording, to the marketing of tape decks in the U.S. by the Ampex company, to Columbia's unveiling of its 12î LP, & the 1st long-playing record to be sold to consumers.
The 4 selections contained here catapulted the Maestro Ellington into the LP era, as the great composer/arranger/pianist & his matchless orchestra took full advantage of the possibilities afforded by magnetic tape recording & the still-new 33 1/3 RPM LP to, for the 1st time, capture uncut concert arrangements of their signature songs.
Duke was joined for the 4 originally recorded tracks by a virtuoso supporting cast: Duke Ellington, Billy Strayhorn (piano). Russell Procope, Paul Gonzalves, Johnny Hodges, Jimmy Hamilton (saxophone). Nelson Williams, Andrew Ford, Harold Baker, Ray Nance, William Anderson (trumpet). Quentin Jackson, Lawrence Brown, Tyree Glenn (trombone). Mercer Ellington (horn). Sonny Greer (drums). Wendell Marshall (bass). Yvonne Lanauze (vocals).
BONUS TRACKS:
On "Vagabonds" the personnel is Francis Williams, Harold Baker, Willie Cook, Clark Terry, Ray Nance (trumpet). Quentin Jackson, Britt Woodman & Juan Tizol (trombones). Willie Smith, Russell Procope. Jimmy Hamilton, Paul Gonsalves, Harry Carney (saxophone & clarinet). Duke Ellington, piano. Wendell Marshall (bass) Louie Bellson (drums). Recorded at Columbia's 30th Street Studio on Dec. 11, 1951.On "Smada" & "Rock Skippin' At The Blue Note" the personnel is Nelson Williams, Harold Baker, Ray Nance, Andrew Ford (trumpet). Quentin Jackson, Britt Woodman, Juan Tizol (trombones). Willie Smith (alto sax, soprano sax). Russell Procope (alto sax, clarinet). Jimmy Hamilton (tenor sax, clarinet). Paul Gonsalves (tenor sax). Harry Carney (baritone sax). Billy Strayhorn (piano). Wendell Marshall (bass). Louie Bellson (drums). Recorded at Columbia's 30th Street Studio on Aug. 7, 1951. Note: The reverb heard on these 2 selections were in the original recordings.
This album wouldn't have been possible without a chain of events starting at the end of World War II. Recorded in December 1950, just 5 years after Germany fell to the Allies, revealing the Germans' advances in magnetic tape recording, Ellington's master work holds its wonder still today & the recording quality hands-down betters the sound of many modern-day albums.
1944-45: Magnetic tape for sound recording spread to America after an American soldier, Jack Mullin, serving with the U.S. Army Signal Corps in the final months of WW II, received two suitcased-sized AEG 'Magnetophon' high-fidelity recorders and 50 reels of Farben recording tape that had fallen into American hands via the capture of a German radio station at Bad Nauheim. German engineers had perfected the technique of using Alternating Current bias ó the addition of an inaudible high-fequency signal (from 40 to 150kHz) ó to improve the sound quality of most audio recordings by reducing distortion and noise.
1947: Mullin became an American pioneer in the field of magnetic tape sound recording, after working to modify and improve the machines. He gave two demonstrations of the recorders at Radio Center in Hollywood in October 1947. A later demonstration for singer/entertainer Bing Crosby led to the use of magnetic tape for recording Crosby's radio programs. Crosby became the first star to use tape to pre-record radio broadcasts.
1948: Crosby invested $50,000 in local electronics firm, Ampex, and the tiny six-man concern soon became the world leader in the development of tape recording. Ampex revolutionized the radio and recording industry with its famous Model 200 tape deck, developed directly from Mullin's modified Magnetophones. Units marked serial No. 1 and 2 were delivered in April 1948 in time to record and edit the 27th Bing Crosby show of the 1947-48 season. A 200A at the time retailed for $4,000 ó nearly as much as a standard single-family home.
Crosby gave one of the first production tape decks to musician Les Paul, which led to Paul's invention of multitrack recording. The first production model 200A recorders are delivered to ABC and placed in service across the country. This marked the first widespread professional use of magnetic tape recording. Working with Mullin, Ampex rapidly developed 2-track stereo and then 3-track recorders. Mullin and Ampex developed a working monochrome videotape recorder by 1956.
Here's where it gets really interesting, as The Duke and history made matchless audiophile magic. It took Columbia Records until December 1950 ó two years into the LP era, and the transition from disc to magnetic tape recording, to get Duke Ellington and his orchestra into the recording studio to cut a long-playing record.
June 1948: Vinyl LPs had taken over as the standard for pressing records by the 1940s; in 1948 Columbia Records introduced its 12-inch Microgroove LP or Long Play record, which could hold at least 20 minutes per side. The first classical long-playing record, and the first 12" LP of any kindó catalog no. Columbia Masterworks Set ML 4001ó was Mendelssohn's Concerto in E Minor for Violin and Orchestra, Op. 64, played by violinist Nathan Milstein with the Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra of New York, conducted by Bruno Walter.
December 19, 1950. Masterpieces by Ellington recorded at Columbia's 30th Street Studio. Released in 1951. Recording engineers Fred Plaut and Harold Chapman. Recorded on an Ampex 200, using 3M-111 magnetic tape running at 15 inches per second. (3M-111 tape was also introduced in 1948, the year the Model 200 debuted).
Suddenly, for the first time in his career, Ellington was able to forgo the 3 minutes-and-change restrictions afforded by the short running time of the 78 RPM disc. He and his band rose to the occasion with extended (11-minute plus) 'uncut concert arrangements' of three of his signature songs ó ìMood Indigo,î ìSophisticated Lady,î with evocative vocals by Yvonne Lanauze, as well as ìSolitude.î Masterpieces was also notable for the debut of the full-bodied, surprise-laden ìThe Tattooed Bride,î and for the swansongs of three Ellintonian giants of longstanding: drummer Sonny Greer, trombonist Lawrence Brown and alto saxist Johnny Hodges (the latter two would eventually return to the fold).
Masterpieces is a revelation and a throwback to a golden recording age. So much history and so much luck combined make this album truly special.
"Even in this august company, 'The Tattooed Bride' is a swinging virtuoso piece that, as everyone present must have known, couldn't possibly have been captured in this manner in any era before this session ó this was also one of the last sessions to feature the classic Ellington lineup with Johnny Hodges, Lawrence Brown, and Sonny Greer, before their exodus altered the band's sound, and so it's a doubly precious piece (as is the whole album), among the last written specifically for this lineup." ó AllMusic.com
Remastered by Ryan Smith at Sterling Sound from the original analogue tapes
Recorded originally on an Ampex 200, using 3M-111 magnetic tape running at 15 inches per second
Note: The Bonus Tracks presented here were recorded with additional personnel at subsequent sessions
Tracks:-
Mood Indigo
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Sophisticated Lady
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The Tattooed Bride
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Solitude
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Vagabonds
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Smada
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Rock Skippin' at the Blue Note
Musicians:
Duke Ellington, piano
Billy Strayhorn, piano
Russel Procope, saxophone
Paul Gonzalves, saxophone
Johnny Hodges, saxophone
Jimmy Hamilton, saxophone
Nelson Williams, trumpet
Andrew Ford, trumpet
Harold Baker, trumpet
Ray Nance, trumpet
William Anderson, trumpet
Quentin Jackson, trombone
Lawrence Brown, trombone
Tyree Glenn, trombone
Mercer Ellington, horn
Sonny Greer, drums
Wendell Marshall, bass
Yvonne, vocals
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