Render Question....

andyc · 17 Jun 2013, 13:07

OK, I've been in this game long enough to know that asking a 'which renderer is best' question opens all sorts of worm-cans

However..... I'm currently using 3DS Max - this is really a hangover from the bad ol' days when I used to model in AutoCad (that and working for a company who can't believe there is life after AutoDesk...)

Anyway, as I now do ALL my modelling in SU, paying for 3DS Max, and only using it for rendering is a real waste, so I've started looking into 3rd party render engines for Sketchup - Vray, Thea, etc etc...

The problem I come up against is this: in 3DS Max the render-time for the image attached (not amazing I know, but typical for my industry) is about 10 minutes, at a resolution of 3200px wide. What I need is a renderer that can get close to these times - in my indusrty render times of hours are simply not realistic. I work to ultra-short deadlines, and designs are being reveised on a constant and rapid basis. You'll see from the example that I don't need ultra-high levels of realism, just basic GI capabilities really. In other words, I can sacrifice total perfection for speed! The model shown is fairly typical in terms of complexity, poly-count etc..

So any and all advice would be appreciated. Render engines are mostly judged on their final image quality, which is fair enough. But what I need is something that is good enough, and FAST. I'm sure there must be others, working in the real world, who have had to deal with this?

Can 'o' worms well and truly opened

Andy

Pixero · 17 Jun 2013, 13:30

It depends so much on your priorities. Image quality versus speed.
For example, time for setting up and tweaking a render should be included in time comparison versus a one click solution.

Thea 1.2 with Presto GPU Engine will be out any day now and is available as an integrated plugin for both SU and Max. Should be fast.
Other than that there are several realtime renderers if you are willing to accept somewhat lower quality. LumenRT might be one worth checking out.

andyc · 17 Jun 2013, 13:42

Thanks Pixero. I've looked at the real-time solutions, and although good, they don't quite have the quality I need.
Your point about set-up times is very valid. In Max, my set-up time is generally about 15 minutes - so not quite 'one-click', but close.
I know that ultimately the need for 'realism vs speed' is going to mean some kind of compromise. I suppose I'm looking for the least-worst compromise!

A

solo · 17 Jun 2013, 14:27

Can you share a model so I can test something out, I may have an easy solution.

andyc · 17 Jun 2013, 14:35

Hi Pete - yes I certainly can.
I'd prefer not to share the model too widely, but it you can PM me an email address....
Very grateful for your help

A

Stinkie · 17 Jun 2013, 16:24

I'd try the new Thea when it's out -which should be this week. Or next week. Or the week after that.

If that one isn't to your liking, Vray for SU or Podium may be worth checking out.

CadFather · 17 Jun 2013, 16:49

in my own workflow

Thea4SU has the advantage of integrating to SU and have materials ready to go - excellent quality, fast and good with development/feedback.

V-Ray is equally good - the next version (1.6) has RT, Dome light and proxies and it is also fast.
also get the feeling they're paying close attention to SU users' feedback.

Personally, i never leave the house without Kerkythea. 64 bit on PC, very fast and good sharp renders.
i don't use it so much these days since i got thea, a couple of years ago, but it's portable, free and very friendly. with some settings i get a 3200px photonmap+AA in 15mins or less (my models generally a lot heavier than the sample you posted).

andyc · 17 Jun 2013, 18:57

Thanks for the responses.
The more I look into Thea the more impressed I become... And the new version does look VERY interesting.
Cad father: I'd be very interested to see an example of one of your "15 minute" renders, if you are able to share one?

solo · 17 Jun 2013, 19:21

The new Thea will be the answer IMO, I really like the speed of the new BSD field mapping.

Here is a test, I purposely added more reflection to surfaces and spot lights to make it more difficult, I used the fast preset and it rendered in 3 mins 12 seconds on an old I7 (2.93 MHz)

All within SU, not in studio, so workflow is basic, model in SU and hit render.

andyc · 17 Jun 2013, 19:49

Wow, Pete

I think you have answered all my questions with that one render! And it looks like Thea will be adding me to their list of users very soon.
Really appreciate you taking the time to do this, thank you.

Suppose that does just leave one question: when is the new version of Thea released? When? When? When?

A.

solo · 17 Jun 2013, 19:55

@andyc said:

Wow, Pete

I think you have answered all my questions with that one render! And it looks like Thea will be adding me to their list of users very soon.
Really appreciate you taking the time to do this, thank you.

Suppose that does just leave one question: when is the new version of Thea released? When? When? When?

A.

That I do not know the answer to, I guess they are crossing the T and dotting the I's at moment.

Stinkie · 17 Jun 2013, 21:32

@andyc said:

And it looks like Thea will be adding me to their list of users very soon.

While I think Thea is great, I cannot stress this enough: try extensively before you buy.

CadFather · 17 Jun 2013, 21:40

i wish i could post the original pictures - they were 3600x1600 but i can't.

however, if thea sounds good, you will not be disappointed - it's really a must have.

still, i'd get a copy of KT just in case - i found myself using someone else's computer (students) with all the trouble about installation, security etc. and of course licensing for a new machine (only if for 1 day) - i was glad i had KT on my flash drive...!

andyc · 18 Jun 2013, 10:43

It certainly seems like a must-have

I had a quick play with Kerkythea several years ago, but didn't really have enough time to look into it properly, and clearly the software has moved on a long way since.

Thanks again guys - I think you have solved my problem for me

A.

dkendig · 20 Jun 2013, 05:26

andyc - We're working towards matching features and workflow between V-Ray for Max and V-Ray for SketchUp, so our plugin is more consistent from one platform to the next. We are currently looking for good feedback with our 1.6 beta, from users that are migrating from other modeling apps to SketchUp, and are basically in the situation you have found yourself in. If you think you might be interested in trying V-Ray out, we'd love to hear your 2 cents.

CadFather - you are absolutely dead on, we are striving to have tighter SU integration, and a more complete feature set moving forward. We now have 64bit support, proxy support is looking better with each release, and we aren't done adding new features just yet