What the F#ck?
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I'm dumbfounded by this one, if you have the time and need a laugh or a cry please read this website.
I first thought it was a joke as either Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert first mentioned it, but last night I saw a mention of it on CNN so I guess there must be something more than a mere pipe dream about this.http://www.iiicitadel.com/index.html
And here is the 'Patriot agreement', I cannot make this shit up.
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On I saw this advert on the top of the page....
I wasn't going to read any further but I did ...... strange ...... very strange!
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Good morning Solo.
Classical liberalism, a political ideology that advocates unregulated markets, limited government, rule of law, due process, and individual liberties including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and others
I am amused that people that call themselves liberal, seem to have problems when groups actually decide to live their beliefs. I won't be living with this group, but also won't be wasting time ragging on their beliefs or the exercise of their beliefs. I don't see any thing in their chosen life style that would interfere with my life style.
Solo quote, " I cannot make this shit up", now there is something we both agree on. Yes I do believe you couldn't make this shit up. Now, I believe you could help pass laws to prevent their solution. But actually allowing someone to live free, no liberals, couldn't allow that.
As for the gun debate. Either set up the process to change our Constitution, or allow, states and cites to set up their solutions.
I saw the Mayor of New York City give a speech, where he said "if President Obama doesn't do something there will be another 48000 deaths in his next term due to illegal guns". Now if that figure was due to legal guns, I would be on his side, but if they have laws now that are not enforced, why pile on more laws. Just enforce the laws we have now.
So the question and answer is why isn't David Gregory in jail?
D.C. Attorney General Irvin Nathan issued a lengthy letter explaining why there will be no prosecution of David Gregory despite a finding that there was a clear violation of the law.
DC Attorney General and Family Friend Decides Not to Prosecute.
Maybe changes in the Second Amendment should be offset with changes in the First Amendment. I give up my right to a AR-15, you give up your right to use four letter words, "F#ck". I give up my right to a concealed weapon, you give up your right to see offensive Hollywood movie.
What I have found, it is always comes down to whose ox is being gored.
Good morning to all
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Points taken Ken. Yes, the project is reasonable and would not effect others not wishing to be involved but I do find it strange and sad that these sorts of projects appear to be needed in what many would regard as the most democratic country in the world.
Over here, we are somewhat amazed at how easy it is to get one's hands on a semi automatic gun. To get a license for a shotgun or .22 (all that is allowed here) involves quite a bit of work and it boils down to the Garda (Irish Police) making the final decision and they really need to know the person / background etc otherwise its a NO!
Then again it seems possible to get unlicensed guns in this country and these are the ones that are mostly involved in crime of all sorts.
It will be interesting to see how the debate pans out in the US.
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@mike lucey said:
in what many would regard as the most democratic country in the world.
that's all propaganda… serious propaganda at work.. and nobody really seems to care..
(and crazier yet that Gorbachev was actually the only 'democrat' involved when trying to get rid of nukes with reagan.. but somehow reagan is credited with ending the cold war
)@unknownuser said:
It will be interesting to see how the debate pans out in the US.
if that community actually happens, it will probably end up with the feds going in and killing all of them (i.e.-waco)
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Ken,
Good morning to you to.
@unknownuser said:
I am amused that people that call themselves liberal, seem to have problems when groups actually decide to live their beliefs. I won't be living with this group, but also won't be wasting time ragging on their beliefs or the exercise of their beliefs. I don't see any thing in their chosen life style that would interfere with my life style.
Their beliefs? fortification and isolationism in the name of firearms is a belief? These guys make the Waco crowd seem sane. Why am I ragging on them you ask, well simply because I find it absolutely absurd and as an outspoken liberal with the privilege of having a 1st amendment right I can. I'm sure that you have much in common with these folk even though you may not choose to join their 'clan'.
@unknownuser said:
Solo quote, " I cannot make this shit up", now there is something we both agree on. Yes I do believe you couldn't make this shit up. Now, I believe you could help pass laws to prevent their solution. But actually allowing someone to live free, no liberals, couldn't allow that.
Live free, yes that's my goal too, however the solution to this problem is more guns, guns in schools, yeah that's living free alright. The same people suggesting more guns are the ones trying to block abortions, because stopping legal safe abortions will stop abortions, yet less guns will increase gun violence....some logic there alright.
@unknownuser said:
So the question and answer is why isn't David Gregory in jail?
Good question, if he broke the law he should be prosecuted, I'm not in disagreement.
@unknownuser said:
Maybe changes in the Second Amendment should be offset with changes in the First Amendment. I give up my right to a AR-15, you give up your right to use four letter words, "F#ck". I give up my right to a concealed weapon, you give up your right to see offensive Hollywood movie.
As silly as this statement is I'll entertain it, I did not know the word 'fuck' is on the same deadly par as your assault rifles, I guess the saying "the tongue is mightier than the sword" needs to be amended to "mightier than the military grade rifle". I am curious what you equate as an offensive Hollywood movie however.
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[off:2su0i1h1]
@unknownuser said:I saw the Mayor of New York City give a speech, where he said "if President Obama doesn't do something there will be another 48000 deaths in his next term due to illegal guns".
what the heck is up with bloomberg? nyc mayors are limited to two 4-year terms (same as u.s. pres.)… he's in his 3rd term already and now he's talking about his next term?!
i guess laws don't really matter when you're the 10th richest person in the united states..[/off:2su0i1h1]
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When did they ever?
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true.. true.
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After more consideration I would like to repeal my original conclusion and come out in support for this idea. I would also like to expand on it and suggest they do it bigger, Texas size this model, maybe even consider Texas as the location as we have way more land available in order to accommodate many more people in bigger communities. We have the most guns already here, lots of like minded people not forgetting many weapons manufacturers already established. We have Alex Jones here, Governor Perry, George Bush and Ted Nugent who would serve as evangelists with glee. It will also help towards the hurt feelings here when Texans learned they could not secede from the Union, why secede when you can withdraw into an Amish type community with enough weapons to start another civil war right?
It would be great for America as this way we would have the most dangerous nut cases in one fortified place, similar to a mental asylum. I'll be moving however as I would like as much distance from such a gun lovers Nirvana as possible.
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Solo I had the pleasure of talking to you at two Base Camps. You were respectful, pleasant and knowledgeable during these conversation. However, I don't understand the lack of civility on this site. Legal gun owners are not "dangerous nut cases". That is a mighty board bush you are painting with.
Solo quote "It would be great for America as this way we would have the most dangerous nut cases in one fortified place, similar to a mental asylum. I'll be moving however as I would like as much distance from such a gun lovers Nirvana as possible."
It is my contention that most of all the gun violence where there were multiple random victims, the shooters were on, or just gotten off some type of mood altering prescription drug. Maybe herein lies the the problem.
Calling people names, trying to find bad guys in mostly law abiding citizens is a poor substitution for finding an acceptable solution.
I just sent my youngest back to college. I gave her advice on how to handle a shooter. Advice I haven't seen anywhere, TV, radio or print. I am not an expert on violence, so I am not sure how good my advice is, however, it is better that anything I have seen being distributed to college or school kids.
Advice I gave.
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If there is a shooter and you can escape, than, run, run, run trying not to draw attention. Keep running away until you are exhausted. Don't run around in circle, get distance between yourself and the shooter.
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If there is a shooter, and you can't run without getting noticed by the shooter, like you are on the 4th floor, and there is a lockable place to hide, than hide. Don't make a noise, and turn off your phone. Stay until you are absolutely sure all is clear. And just having a quiet moment in not a sign that all is clear.
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If there is a shooter, and you can't run, and there is no lockable place to hide, hide the best you can, be quiet. If the shooter comes into the room and starts firing, than fight. Stop hiding, throw things at the shooter, cell phone, books, chairs whatever, get others to throw things, and keep throwing things, until he is gone or you can't throw thing, DO NOT try to hide under a desk when you are trapped praying that he won't find you. Fight damn it. And if the shooter is down, keep hitting him with whatever you have until the police arrive. Don't stop until they have to pull you off.
Hey. Solo, after living in Louisiana for some years, I suggest this be you next place of residence. Pick a place that is below sea level and on the coast, so I can help you pay for your new home when a hurricane flattens your home. Hey, I work so others are protected from their bad decisions. This is in jest. If you think TX is bad, try southern LA.
You can tell I am waiting on more work from the home office. Time on my hands.
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@unknownuser said:
finding an acceptable solution.
easy.. disarm from the top down.. lead by example..
but i very seriously doubt this will ever happen.. instead, the plan seems to be to use guns (as well as religion, race, sex, etc) to divide the citizens up amongst themselves.. fight about all this crap which have no real solutions in the world as it is..
example- ken & solo are on the same team.. but they don't know it and somewhat view themselves as enemies because they vote for different 'parties'..
wash/rinse/repeat a few billion times and we're left with what we have..
divide and conquer… weeeeeeee! -
but that ^ aside …
@unknownuser said:
Advice I gave.
{{run, then hide, then fight}}
why not just give her a gun to protect herself with? ('her' not meaning your daughter in particular) if a shooter shows up, she just shoots them instead.. that seems to be a general mantra of why people need to be armed -- for protection..
problem is, it's more likely she'll find out her boyfriend cheated on her so she shoots him with the gun you gave her.. (when maybe a slap across the face would suffice)..
it's this type of scenario under which most of the domestic shootings seem to be happening… it's much rarer to hear about someone shooting an attacker or 'bad guy'..
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@solo said:
After more consideration I would like to repeal my original conclusion and come out in support for this idea. I would also like to expand on it and suggest they do it bigger, Texas size this model, maybe even consider Texas as the location as we have way more land available in order to accommodate many more people in bigger communities. We have the most guns already here, lots of like minded people not forgetting many weapons manufacturers already established. We have Alex Jones here, Governor Perry, George Bush and Ted Nugent who would serve as evangelists with glee. It will also help towards the hurt feelings here when Texans learned they could not secede from the Union, why secede when you can withdraw into an Amish type community with enough weapons to start another civil war right?
It would be great for America as this way we would have the most dangerous nut cases in one fortified place, similar to a mental asylum. I'll be moving however as I would like as much distance from such a gun lovers Nirvana as possible.
Yes Solo, come on over to to California, we need more sane people like your self here.
And also let Texas secede or become North Mexico for that matter. -
Surprise, surprise, it seems that behind every douche bag idea is a douche bag.
The person behind this brain fart idea is in fact a convicted extortionist Christian Hyman, aka Sam Kerodin :
http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/01/the-iii-citadel-controversy.html
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Now, there is a suitable plan. All liberal to CA. Yep, and TX won't have to ceded, the rest of the country will vote CA. out. A win-win proposal. I know CA. is to small, so I give you NY, MA, MN, IL. and to add some spice, LA also.
Feeling my oats.
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@unknownuser said:
I just sent my youngest back to college. I gave her advice on how to handle a shooter.
Ken, that must have been a hard thing to do. I hope your youngest never has to implement your advise.
I have two daughters and was fortunate that I never really had worries about them during their school and college days also their days in the UK. Of course I 'wised them up' when it came to not getting into 'sticky' situations. I also encouraged them to travel and get experience, which they did.
Coincidentally there was a program on the TV this evening, Paul Connolly Investigates*... Armed and Dangerous Ireland. Paul Connolly infiltrates Ireland's black-market weapons trade to track down underground arms dealers* http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/373/0/0/Paul-Connolly-Investigates...
During the program Paul managed to interview quite a few underworld gun dealers / criminals. I am inclined to take some of it with a 'grain of salt' but never the less I do know that there are a lot more shootings in Ireland these days and hand guns and semis are available at a price.
I also know lots of people that have guns, mostly shotguns. I myself held both shotgun and rifle license some years ago when I did a bit of hunting. I sold my guns (legally) after I decided not to hunt any longer as I got to dislike it.
Criminals in this country up until recently used sawn off shot guns mostly stolen from framers but since the police started insisting on more secure storage these guns are not used, its the 'imports' than are the norm now.
What to do about this situation! I have no answer except for ordinary people to get more involved in society. These days if someone drops of a heart attack in the main street, many people will walk over them .... people these days just won't get involved. The same goes if they come across someone being beaten up .... the 'blind eye' is often turned ..... 'don't get involved'!
The police can only do so much, they need the general public to report on things that are suspect when they see / experience them. Then again, the police these days are very 'out of touch' with the general public. They days they drive around in cars and rarely interact with the community.
When I was a young lad the local guards (our police) walked around the place or traveled around on bicycles. Don't laugh, while traveling around on a bicycle, the rider can take more in and actually chat to the people he / she passes. It might only have been a 'hello' but this 'hello' often built relationships.
I know of lots of kids in my youth the were 'straightened out' by the local guard with a good kick in the arse! BTW, it was often the parents that asked the guard to straighten 'Johnny' out. Most of the time it worked!
So, I say one way of combatting this outbreak of gun violence is for the ordinary folks to get involved in monitoring and taking an interest in their local communities and not expect the local police force to do everything .... they are not and never will be able.
'The pen is mightier than the sword', maybe public vigilance might well be mightier that the gun!
Mike
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I have a better idea. How about we send every far right AR-15 gun-toting neo-con to Louisiana and send every far left socialist do-nothing there too, then build a wall around the state and forget about them so the rest of us can have a reasonable debate about the issues without having extreme ideologies pummeling us from both sides.
I wish there were more moderates/independents that would stand up and just tell the extremists to "stick it where the sun don't shine". I've got one group telling me I can't enjoy my shooting sports and the other group telling me I'm a good for nothing godless leech.
That's un-American.
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@escapeartist said:
I have a better idea. How about we send every far right AR-15 gun-toting neo-con to Louisiana and send every far left socialist do-nothing there too, then build a wall around the state and forget about them so the rest of us can have a reasonable debate about the issues without having extreme ideologies pummeling us from both sides.
Austrailia?
i wonder where my blurbs fit in to the extremes scale.. left? right?.. fwiw, i pretty much hope to come across as the peanut gallery in these conversations (which i always seem to get into
) ..but from an internet argument pov, i think i take jabs at both sides..but when i say things like 'i don't think there's a chance at a real solution', i do mean it (mostly).. even though the solution is pretty simple.. we're just sort of trained to think like "oh, that's too hard.. changing is too hard"
an analogy would be along the lines of this automobile scenario.. (this applies to all of these conversations.. the money ones.. religion. politics.. etc..)
punchline first maybe? your car has a flat tire..
you're sitting around complaining about this bumpy ride in the car thinking 'oh, it's bumpy.. i better change the shocks.. that's the solution.. "
or- I'm getting crappy gas mileage.. "car's really need better [xxxxx]".. or "probably the air filter etc.."
&- "gotta get the alignment fixed.. she's pulling to the right"the thing is, these aren't problems.. they are effects.. or sub-problems.. and you're not going to get a smooth ride with new shocks.. maybe a tiny bit smoother but that's it..
but fix the real problem and multiple issues suddenly disappear as well.. and you didn't even have to address the sub-problems to make them disappear.. gun control is nothing but a band-aid.. things may get a tad bit better but barely even noticeable because you haven't actually addressed and solved the real problem..
a couple of blurbs from Jiddu Krishnamurti:
those are the avenues we need to start going down..
realizing (much of) the world's crises are not actual problems.. they are effect.. the problems run deeper (or shallower if you will)..the 'radical revolution' is not one where we arm ourselves against the govt or throw a bunch of tea off a boat..
the revolution must occur inside us.. in our brains.
the crisis is a crisis in consciousnesshumans (and i'm talking every last single one of us.. no matter how poor or oppressed or whatever) view ourselves as some sort of superior being.. we're so incredibly smart and light years beyond 2nd place..
but what are we comparing to? i mean yes, you're super duper intelligent...
..compared to a pig
...wow, that dog only knows how to shake hands and roll over and it took me 2 years to teach him that..reality is (at least one version of reality) that we're nothing but cavemen.. we're so low on the smart scale it's not even funny.. an intelligent civilization may see our planet and say "cool.. those bees sure have things figured out" and look at us like some sort of cracked out warewolves that know how to send radio waves..
but we won't admit that to ourselves.. we'll even look at cavemen and think downwardly on them.. we're superior to them dumbasses.. but our actions-- they're more/less the exact same.. except the cavemen, i feel, are the superiors here because they needed those actions for survival.. if they weren't greedy and aggressive and violent etc we might not be here today.. but we no longer need those things for survival.. a difference i think humans may have compared to other earth species is that we have a consciousness.. and with that, we can continue to evolve our brains..
..but what good is a consciousness if we don't use it to our (all of us) benefit? not much
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