Economic Crisis - some advantages?!
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Longer or shorter, more superficial or deeper, more 'natural' or forced (artificial), Economic Crises appear and apparently disappear ...!
While many people see the crisis as some unfortunate regressions, there are people who perceive things otherwise... Most people suffer in these periods, but there are some who benefit from them and 'use' to prosper. People who have resources can achieve, in a short time, things that they can not do on a long period, in a thriving economy.
Those who have resources, ingenuity, creativity ..., use the 'benefits' of economic crisis and may have higher achievement...
Usually, people with resources are savers, going against the current practice ...,
while others are spending.There is, for example, a wise expression: "When all buy, you sell..., and when all sell, you buy!"
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Crisis SIMPLIFIES our existing!
When all are going well and we are in a material prosperity, we collect all sorts of things, we agglomerate space and existence with many items that have no real need. Consumer society has come to realize efficient, with very affordable prices, useful goods..., but so many are apparently useful...
We are tempted to think that we need a particular thing, and other, and another..., and we end up suffocated by what we acquired, without realizing that many of the things we have, possess us and waste our life.If you have more cars, you have to maintain them, with money and time. If you have water/snow/all-terrain skooters..., and other things that requested you, majority of them occupies your precious time that you could use it with family members, with close true friends, etc. A boat or a scooter, hardly can embellish /ennobles your real life!
We rarely find time for what's really valuable, for relationships with fellows, because we have choked our life with a lot of material things. Then a very crowded house/ property can not be easy kept in order and in cleaning...!During economic crisis, people are forced to cease to buy unnecessary things, simplifying their existing. This becomes a real blessing. Incomes are reduced, expenses are reduced..., so we will buy, with discernment, only things we have clearly needed ...
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Come on boys! Nobody to argue with Cornel on that subject?
May be he could let us know what the bible says about it
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Well, he's right up to a point. Cutting down on needless consumerism is no bad thing....but I don't remember a beatitude starting with "Blessed are the repossessed..."?
I would imagine that losing your job or home far from simplifies matters; it just makes them a whole lot more complicated and stressful.What was it Mr. Micawber said about income and expenditure? I'd imagine that is the tipping point...whether you can balance the two at the end of each month. Having less disposable income means you can just bunker-down and prioritise. Having negative disposable income and slowly (or rapidly) slipping into debt is a whole different ball game.
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True values...!
We hear some people expressing themselves like this: "We lost money, property ..., but thank God that we did not lose anyone in the family!"
Money sometimes have no value, become an almost nothing ... They do not represent a true value when we have them in abundance, but when we are very limited.
In times of crisis, people are closer to God, and strong family relationships are cemented. Divorce rate always decreases in economic crisis and increases where prosperity grows.
Also in times of crisis, churches are attended by a much larger number of people ...!
We need to get to appreciate things that are valuable in God's eyes! If there aren’t any crisis, most believers will be preoccupied in the pursuit of many things without value.
Crisis brings us closer to God, to other family members, to the saints of the church (shared fellowship), etc. -
So in essence what you are saying is economic crisis's are a good thing as it attracts people to god?
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Pete, I don't read Cornel as saying that, it looks to be more of an observation which I believe to be true generally.
Let's stick to the main topic! We are always having a go at Cornel when he starts quoting the Bible at us. I notice in his first two posts there was no mention of the Bible. It was brought up by Elmer!
So back on topic!
I agree with Cornel that economic downturns do focus people of what is valuable to them at the end of the day. Fair enough, divorce figures do go down but suicide figures go up for men mostly because they bottle stuff up until in explodes. Women on the other had let it all out and think nothing of having a good old cry! I can remember the number of times I have cried as an adult! I'd say it is no more than 4 - 5 times! I don't include the little tears that appear when watching a sad movie.
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just looked up some stats on suicide rates in Europe. Not good news!
Greek woes drive up suicide rate
'Experts attribute rise to the country's economic crisis following release of statistics that show a 40% jump since last year'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/18/greek-woes-suicide-rate-highestHere in Ireland the picture is not much better,
Economic crisis pushing suicide rates up
'IRELAND has recorded its highest-ever number of suicides, with figures up by an astonishing 24% in 2009 compared to 2008.'
http://randomirishnews.com/2010/09/02/economic-crisis-pushing-suicide-rates-up/While driving the other day I was listening to the radio and a woman that has written a book of the subject. I did not catch the name of the book but she made some points that stuck in my mind.
One thought was that if the person contemplating suicide could manage to think about how the act would effect his loved ones and even people that are just acquaintances, he might not go any further. The woman said the problem was that the man (mostly) is normally in too deep a black hole to think rationally about others and to make it worse he can actually think that he would be doing everyone a favour!
I have been thinking about this drastic problem and feel that we all should keep in mind that a simple chat can mean a lot. I think most of the regulars here on the forums are a chatty bunch and tend to get things out rather than bottle stuff. Its a message that we should be spreading, 'Don't Bottle it, Blow it Out!'. After having a good chat with a friend or even an acquaintance about our troubles there is often a feeling of relieve, a good thing.
Has anyone any thoughts on this subject?
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Normal people do not want crisis...! Crises bring with them A LOT OF PROBLEMS, including those mentioned by Mike Lucey,
like increasing depression and suicide rate...I want to just laid down some POSITIVE ASPECTS of the crisis, if they're...
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Economic crisis provides us with multiple opportunities to SERVE, to HELP others. We do not know how long and how deep this crisis will be, but we know that there will be people in necessities around us ..., and we have the opportunity to ASSIST them.
Maybe there are worried people beside us ... It is good to urge them to choose God as Father, Who takes care of His own. Maybe people around us are disappointed, confused and shaken... We have the opportunity to approach them and talk to them about Jesus Christ, the One that does not disappoint on any man, the One who enriches the lives of all those who trust in Him.
Many need assistance..., and they are more open to the Gospel when need help!
A large-scale crisis of the society, offers unexpected opportunities for MINISTRY. Are we ready?!Atheists, do not be hypocrites! When we deal with acute crisis, famine, pestilences, disasters, wars, and so on, all of you believe in God, don’t you?!
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And this thread started off so well.
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Back to the original point. We had a recession in the 70's that coincided with "back to the land" sentiments, cooperatives, anti-materialism, and some spiritual seeking. (for better and worse). Cause and effect or not. I think it was partly a baby boomer glut of young people with lack of jobs. But I think less people were looking to God than to the government, and in some cases "alternative" income to help them out.
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Yeah Alan, I thought we were going to have an intelligent debate also
Cornel, It looks like Pete was right. I think we would prefer not to have this topic smothered with religion! Fair enough, if you or anyone else wants to pray to God for help, go ahead with our blessing
BTW, isn't it said,'God helps those, who help themselves!'.Now, how can we help ourselves? I think the first thing to do is try and fully understand what has happened to cause the problem also what is currently happening and then act to try and remedy the mess!
It looks like these are two major problem zones, USA and EU. The USA seem to be trying to 'money print' their way out of trouble instead of manufacturing their way out like they did in the past and the EU are imposing restrictions and no incentives! I can't see either of these envisaged solutions working. To get a picture of what's happening in Europe, this interactive graphic helps.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16098582I feel the only answer for Europe is total Union, one government in Brussels, in other words, the United States of Europe. I have a feeling that most sensible politicians know this deep down but are afraid to actually voice it in public for fear of not being re-elected into their cushy localised jobs.
If this happens (total Political Union) we would end up with a Government that would have the best from each country running our EU affairs! The current EU parliament looks to me to be a talking shop full of second rate political wannabes, its a joke! All we have to do is look at our local MEPs (Members of European Parliament), all they do is pass their time voting on what size a parsnip should be and such like, I'm serious. Now that push has come to shove, its Merkal and Zarcosy that have taken the reins! But I don't believe wither of them have the political skill to pull off a solution.
Another major problem is the balance of trade with China, Korea etc. Just looking around my house I see a huge amount of stuff that comes from China! One hand washes the other, as they say! Its not possible to continue doing business with others if they don't return the business! But again the Chinese plan would appear to be to buy up assets in other countries! I suppose it better than worrying about the 'Yellow Peril' that was high on the political agenda some decades ago.
The Big Corps are being short sighted also, how can they expect to see citizens of the West buy their products if they are being made in China? Maybe they don't! Possibly they are are on the gravy train for a quick kill! They are mobile of course and will move anywhere their is a buck to be saved or made. So they won't be the answer either.
We have been hearing conspiratorial rumors about a New World Order for quite a few year now. Maybe some of the ideas behind a New World Order might just improve the lot of humanity. For a benign New World Order to work for all, communication would have to work right down to the grass roots level. This has now become possible these days with the development and growth of the Internet. Just look at the upheavals in the many Arab states of late, its seems Twitter and FaceBook played a major part in information transmission.
The so called 'Power Brokers' often mentioned to be behind a New World Order are really a very small group / number of people! While they currently control the money / power situation, they cannot control citizens thinking, at least not citizens with some degree of public spirit.
So, I suppose the fist step is to voice your opinions. If enough do so, the politicos will realise that they had better do what the populous wants.
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@mike lucey said:
Now, how can we help ourselves? I think the first thing to do is try and fully understand what has happened to cause the problem also what is currently happening and then act to try and remedy the mess!
OK 'Mike L', start from CAUSES!
Can we propose something special, in the crisis situation in which we deep?! Most people, in crisis, are happy to survive ...!
Field more 'obvious' hit is the economic one, but the **ECONOMIC CRISIS (natural, manipulated ... or combined) ARE actually TRIGGERED AND FUELED BY OTHER TYPES OF CRISES, SUCH AS MORAL AND SPIRITUAL, plus social and political.**The economic crisis is that which 'bothers' more, other types being more easily tolerated/accepted ... God uses economic crises, (even those social or political) to open our eyes to the crisis of higher order: as moral and spiritual! -
@unknownuser said:
God uses economic crises, (even those social or political) to open our eyes to the crisis of higher order: as moral and spiritual!
Your argument doesn't make any sense to me. It has been my understanding that the Christian God is supposed to have given 'Man' freewill! Its obviously man's free will that has created this mess and its going to be a result of man's free will that get us out of this mess. I very much doubt that God or Gods have anything to do with it.
On the other hand if you are saying that God has caused this economic crises in order to encourage man to 'adore' him, that really is a sad situation. Its like a father causing ill to a child in order to gain respect. As a father of two children I could never countenance such an act.
So, I'd say, better to stay on topic and use, in your case, believed to be 'God given' and in my case 'evolved' intelligence to figure things out. If your God wants to row in with some help, I have no problem with that either
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This is an article well worth reading I think. Its on Edge,
CAN SCIENCE HELP SOLVE THE ECONOMIC CRISIS?
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/brown08/brown08_index.html -
@mike lucey said:
This is an article well worth reading I think. Its on Edge,
CAN SCIENCE HELP SOLVE THE ECONOMIC CRISIS?
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/brown08 ... index.htmlYou're right, ‘Mike L.’, that article appears to be seriously prepared, but, “separated from God we can do nothing” (John 15:5)
The crisis are REORIENTING us.
We always need RESEARCH, as David says:
“Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting” (Psalm 139:23-24)
King David knew that we could easily grab a wrong way ... We need correction, straightening of life, because sometimes we lose direction and correct vision. While economic crisis, we regain clear vision of reality and we focus on what is really important.So we begin to DISTINGUISH PRIORITIES and follow them more carefully, we come to recognize how much Jesus Christ was right when He advised us, referring to the heavenly Father:
“Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all other things will be given to you as well.” (Mattew 6:33)Crisis teaches us about DEPENDENCE on God and living through FAITH. When all goes well and we have plenty of money, it seems that we are sufficient, it seems that we have no need of something or someone, even of God...
The Lord allowed crises and reminds us how dependent we are on Him, and we begin to live by true faith. Those who always have all, in abundance, they have no intimate experience with the Lord...! -
I give up Cornel, no point in continuing this discussion
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@Mike Lucey
+1
If we can't save ourselves, we expect god to do this?
What is god? Our flexible creation of a father or something?
What is a shame?
Better. What means "acknowledged disgrace"? -
I see, it'sthe english language barrier.
Let's try this one. An old lady,
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