New Year, New computer....
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Thanks Jeff, appreciate your comments. I'll get onto my supplier and see what he can do....
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I'm always building computers, so I thought I'd throw a couple of thoughts in here --
Nothing has been mentioned about the case. It's very important, not only to the building process, but also when it comes to doing maintenance, and allowing for future upgrades and expansion. You wouldn't buy a Lamborghini and park it in an old shed, would you?
Go with a full-size case, it makes the building process so much easier. Tool-less, of course. Make sure the HDD's can be swapped out quickly and easily, and that it allows for future expansion. Read the reviews of any case you are considering, they are a good source of potential problems. And I don't mean just the reviews on the site, like Newegg or TigerDirect, google the hell out of it, there are usually a number of sites that offer comprehensive reviews of anything you are considering buying. Good airflow is very important, especially with today's powerful components. Power means heat. That means not only a sufficient number of large fans, but fans that allow for easy cleaning, logically placed to maximize airflow over the components most susceptible to heat, the CPU, GPU, and the hard drives. THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF ANY ELECTRICAL COMPONENT IS HEAT!! The first thing I do when building a new computer is remove the case sides, and make a frame to hold a single layer of a good furnace filter. By single layer, I mean just peel one layer off of the filter. I just make a wooden frame that fits the side of the case and that allows for easy replacement of that filter layer, and attach it to the side of the computer in place of the original side. Then I use a good fan of appropriate size (I use 9 inch fans) and place it just outside the filter, in such a way that it allows for maximum exchange of air inside the computer. I also reverse any fans that are drawing air into the case, so that they are all sucking air out of the case. That way the air from the external fan is the main source, and it's being blown in thru that filter. And keep that filter clean. I have a small 1hp shop vac that I use just for this. This setup makes for a very cool, and very clean, computer. It's not the prettiest setup, but when it comes to protecting all of those expensive little electronic doo-dads, I'll take functional over pretty any day, and I'd wager my computers are running a lot cooler and cleaner than a similar setup just using the stock case and fans. I've got five computers, all home-built, and I never worry about a thermal problem. I'll repeat this -- THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF ANY ELECTRICAL COMPONENT IS HEAT!!The motherboard -- Make sure number of SATA connections is sufficient for your needs, and that their locations allow for easy connections to your HDD's, without having to stretch the SATA cables, and without having to disconnect them each time you need access to other components on your MB. But, having said that, while the old ribbon cables were electronically limited in length, SATA cables are not, and you can get longer ones to fit your needs. So if the MB is otherwise ok, you can get longer SATA cables to make up for a shortcoming there. Make sure the MB design allows plenty of room for using a good CPU cooler (never just go with the stock cooler that comes with your CPU), and that it has space for using the physically larger GPU's (without blocking another connector).
Power Supply -- Modular, by all means. It makes for a much easier build, and minimizes the number of cables you have cluttering up your puter and interfering with the air flow.
One thing that many buyers overlook, and regret later, is the return policy. I don't care how good the deal seems to be, if it doesn't come with a really good return policy I will not buy it. Read the fine print, sometimes it sounds like a good return policy, but in reality there are so many exceptions and conditions and restocking fees and whether you will be forced to deal with the manufacturer's warranty, and who pays the return postage, etc, etc, that the bottom line is that if something goes wrong you are not going to be happy with your options. When I come across something that sounds like a really good buy, before I check into anything else, I thoroughly check the return policy. It's paid off for me many times.
Well, I'm sure there are other things I'd like to mention, and I'm sure I'll think of them right after I click the "submit" button, but I see this is turning into quite a long post, so I'll quit here. I'm not claiming to be an expert in any of these areas, these are just some things that I have learned during my building experiences.
Best of luck with your project.
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@utiler said:
Any idea what performance difference there is in the GTX 580 or 590?
Check the link of a website showing comparison of price and performance posted by Gaieus up there.
@gaieus said:
Here is a comprison chart of cards:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.htmlHi Steve, would you tell me how did you make the side cover filter, please? I don't replace them, just put it aside opened and have a big fan blowing freely into the case
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Thanks heaps for your suggestions, Steve. Very informative and well received!!
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Women's hose stretched tightly make very good filters. Otherwise a trip to the fabric store can get you some fine mesh fabric.
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@escapeartist said:
Women's hose stretched tightly make very good filters. Otherwise a trip to the fabric store can get you some fine mesh fabric.
Good suggestions Jeff. I prefer furnace filters for several reasons -- they are cheap, especially considering that you are only using one of many layers of the filter, they allow good airflow while providing good filtration, and you can adjust the number of layers you use according to the particular furnace filter you are using. Also, they don't get runs in them
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women's what?
that is one thing i don't know, Steve. furnace filter? -
HVAC filters, the ones you get for your household forced-air heating and cooling systems. Usually from the home improvement store.
I can see those would be a great idea for filters, especially if you buy the high-performance ones. But how do you mount them to the fan inlet? You could cut several filters out of one full-size filter so the cost would be defrayed per-filter for the computer, so that's a nice benefit.
Another thought would be automotive air filters. they really let the air flow and keep the dust out.
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@escapeartist said:
I can see those would be a great idea for filters, especially if you buy the high-performance ones. But how do you mount them to the fan inlet? You could cut several filters out of one full-size filter so the cost would be defrayed per-filter for the computer, so that's a nice benefit.
Another thought would be automotive air filters. they really let the air flow and keep the dust out.
I think you are talking about filters for the fans in the case. I'm talking about a filter to replace the side of the case, with an external fan to provide the air flow. I don't need filters for the case fans, because all of them blow air from inside the case to the outside, and the air they are moving has already been filtered.
Here's the kind I use. Not the pleated kind. Just remove the cardboard frame, cut to size and gently peel off however many layers you want to use (I've only ever used just one layer and it's worked perfectly for me). Then I make a wooden frame to fit the side of the new case, and just attach the filter to it using blue painter's tape. I then attach strips of that foam insulation that comes on a roll with one adhesive side, cut to length and stuck to the frame so that it seals the frame to the computer, ensuring that any air that gets inside has to go thru the filter. And then I attach the frame to the computer using a few strips of the blue painter's tape. Like I mentioned earlier, it ain't pretty, but I don't care about pretty. All I care about is protecting all those expensive heat-sensitive components. (I could make it pretty, but for me that's just not necessary)
I used to go to the trouble of making the frame so that I could slide a new filter (on a separate frame) into it, but if you keep the filter clean I've found that it lasts a very long time. The inside of my computers remains very clean, and the filter allows plenty of air to pass thru.
This solution isn't for everyone, especially those that have to have a fancy case with all the lights and doo-dads. But different strokes, and all that
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thank you Steve.
that image really helpful to make me understand better of the idea.
i'd like to try that if i got the chance to upgrade my pc. -
Wow, you replace the entire side of your case with a filter? That can actually reduce cooling capability of the fans in your case, i.e. the fans will just circulate hot air instead of being able to direct it through and out of the case. I guess if you only have fans taking air out it might work OK, but like you said that solution isn't for everybody.
Generally you want positive pressure in a case (Neutral would be ideal), this will keep contaminants out of the case. Negative pressure would suck dirt in through every little hole in the case, and that can be in your USB ports, headphone jacks or any other port that is not sealed. My other half's PC has negative pressure and the ports are clogged with cat fur after a few months and they need to be vacuumed out. Eventually some sneaks through and clogs the processor fan and the graphics card necessitating further cleanup inside. Not really desirable as every time it is necessary you expose the components inside to damage or static discharge. Positive pressure will mostly avoid this.
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The external 9 inch fan blows in air thru the filter, the others draw out the air. The computer stays cool, and it stays clean. I have been using this system on all of my computers for many years, works great. Like I said, this won't appeal to everyone, aesthetically.
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Hellnbak -- I'm sure you're getting enough cooling, but not the most efficient. More open doesn't equal cooler. Here's an interesting article on air cooling setups.
Smaller more confined spaces direct air current over the parts that need to be cooled where larger, more open cases have to move a lot more air. There's also the issues of pursuing a negative or positive pressured case.Plus... there are some pretty cool cases if you look around.
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Sorry to hear that my computers have not be running very cool and clean for many years. Guess I'll have to throw them out and build new ones with the correct cooling system
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Lol, bit dramatic eh?
Whatever works. Aesthetically I wouldn't like it at all; but if you're not OC'ing and things aren't failing or causing crashes, who cares if it looks like a case designed by Home Depot?
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So it turns out that I didn't buy my system when I originally posted as my wife bought a laptop for home so my work system stayed put....
But now its on!! Things haven't seemed to have changed much since unless you all have some updated tech info....
So here's what I'm ordering:
i7 2600k 3.4Ghz
12Gb 133MHz DDR3 RAM
240GB SSD
1TB Hard drive
Nvidia GTX580 GPU
800W Power supply
Win 7 64-BitThe only thing I am not convinced about ia whether to go with a GTX 680 rather than the 580. Had a look here again http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html and also here: http://www.hwcompare.com/12366/geforce-gtx-580-vs-geforce-gtx-680/
Not sure what 'Texel rate v Pixel rate is or even if I would notice it but would love to know anyway... Also, the cost difference is not much so either way it doesn't make much difference.Anyway, close to sending off final specs so if any of you have comment they are all welcome!!
Oh, and I'm thinking a bigger monitor.... yes, yes I know I have said in other threads that my 24' is sufficient but I am now coming around to something bigger..... HOW BIG???
Cheers,
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Utiler, this looks like a nice machine... I'm pretty close to putting a system together but was leaning towards an i7-3930 (or maybe come back to a i7-3820), but otherwise very similar to yours. I was wondering how you came to your decision regarding CPU? I've also been bouncing the graphics card thing around - originally Quadro 2000, but now reconsidering the same choices as you. Cheers - Mick
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Hey Mick, actually I this CPU was quoted to me a little while ago so I should ask about a the i7 3930.
From what it seems the Quadro cards are priced to target professional CAD users where as the GTX cards perform just as well if not better for what SU needs as you'll see by the links I provided.
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@utiler said:
Hey Mick, actually I this CPU was quoted to me a little while ago so I should ask about a the i7 3930.
From what it seems the Quadro cards are priced to target professional CAD users where as the GTX cards perform just as well if not better for what SU needs as you'll see by the links I provided.
Don't get me wrong, what you have looks good - I was just wondering if there was something particular that swung your decision, as it's pretty hard trying to make a decision with all the choices out there. Having looked at it more, I think the 3820 isn't really a great option, so for me it seems its between the 2600 and 3930.
With the video card, I figure that I can always buy something like the gtx580 and if it doesn't work out for me then I'm sure someone will buy it off me for a reasonable price, but not sure I could say the same for the quadro. As a side note, it seems the gtx580 is being discontinued... so is already old
Cheers
- Mick
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Thanks for that, Mick. I'll ask my tech guys whats hot in cards at the moment....
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