Act of God.
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Marian, give me AN EXAMPLE, not a list!
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The census of Quirinius (Cyrenius) and Herod the Great were not contemporary...they were separated by at least 9 years. This is a matter of historical record. So which was it...the journey to Bethlehem or the Massacre of the Innocents...you can't have both.
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@unknownuser said:
Marian, give me AN EXAMPLE, not a list!
You can not to choose any example from the list?
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@unknownuser said:
Maybe God hadn't invented spellchecker on his Apple Mac?
At least now we know God made apples but man made WindowsSteve Job created the world, with a little help from Chuck Norris (must admit).
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@solo said:
When you live your life with blinkers on you never get to see the big picture.
Truly sad and pitiful
@unknownuser said:
Marian, give me AN EXAMPLE, not a list!
Why? Just pick one from the lists.
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@ 'Alan F.'
Herod the Great ruled 37-4 BC, but the current calendar is wrong, with several years difference. After him, was Herod Archelaus, who ruled 4BC-6AD.
I thought you know these simple things…! -
I do know those simple things, but what have they...or a later change of calendar...got to do with it? Quirinius wasn't appointed governor until the Romans had to impose direct rule after Herod Archelaus was driven from power in 6-7 AD...a decade later...and by the same calendar
This is both matter of Roman record and that of the Jewish historian Josephus. -
‘Alan F’, you probably know just as in A.D. 6 the emperor dispached Quirinius to Syria, and, at the same time, Coponius was named guvernor of Judea, and the two did conduct a Census.
According to some historians, this is the second time Quirinius was governor in Syria, and because of that, in the Bible, we have such a mention, at Luke 2:1-2:
“[In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. This was the FIRST Census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria. And everyone went to their own town to register.]”So Luke knew about at least 2 Quirinius Census...!
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An interesting documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4bI6YUXEg&feature=player_embedded -
@unknownuser said:
According to some historians, this is the second time Quirinius was governor in Syria
Yes, some 'historians' like yourself, eager to rewrite history to fit with the Gospels. There is not an iota of evidence to support that claim, either from Roman or Jewish sources. Nor was there any such need for a governor with a Tetrarch still in place.
In fact, there's no real evidence for a census at this time at all...and it's unheard of to demand that everyone travel to their city of origin just to participate in one...a totally unnecessary logistical and administrative nightmare.
Most ordinary christians wouldn't have a problem with this. The author of Luke made a mistake. Big deal. It's only a problem if you take the Bible to be the infallible word of God.
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Alan F., if you can not check someone, does not mean that the respective is wrong!
You have no a complete list about all Census... -
@unknownuser said:
Alan F., if you can not check someone, does not mean that the respective is wrong!
You have no a complete list about all Census...I don't need a complete list of all censuses; I only need the one mentioned in the Bible.
It could well be that the census of biblical fame was an earlier, pre-Quirinian census that was actually carried out during the reign of Herod the Great...but that's not what Luke tells us. There is, in fact, no record of any census carried out by Quirinius...but Luke says there was...and that is clearly at odds with it being during Herod's reign, because they are a decade apart.In any case, you creationist types are far too handy at reversing the argument and putting the burden of negative proof on the other party...like demanding people prove there is no god, instead of you proving that there is. Your own position is marked by a total lack of evidence of any kind.
It's a matter of historical record that Quirinius was made governor of Syria in 6 AD. If you claim that he was made governor at least 10 years earlier than that, prove it. If you can't then it's simply a case of you making stuff up to defend an indefensible position.
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‘Alan', if re. Quirinius you have no sufficient historical data, do not despair!
You said there are many contradictions in the Bible, so, come with a new well founded one!
Eventually ‘Marian’ can help you ... -
Cornelius is running out of bible quotes.
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So you are not going to explain the contradiction, then...other than by making up some nonsense?
Or any of the others on the lists posted by Marian?
Thought not.
It's you that's working with no data; you have nothing to counter the historical record other than a vivid imagination. We'll call it 1-0 to the rationalists then. -
@unknownuser said:
Alan', if re. Quirinius you have no sufficient historical data, do not despair!
You said there are many contradictions in the Bible, so, come with a new well founded one!
Eventually ‘Marian’ can help you ...Sure he (Marian) can help. Isn't it time for you to open your eyes and to see what is really going on around you in this world? With you it's more or less like putting in a coin into a machine and another quote pops out of the boxes. It's like you never question anything. I can see that the bible is the only thing for you. That would be okay if you didn't try to force it through our throats. Unlike you I like to think for myself, question things, read what others think and evaluate. By now I do know where you stand. Just for once, watch that documentary that Marian linked to. Pay extra attention to (time) 1:22:58 through 1:23:12. *“…and perhaps the reason why so many of these writings have been lost to us altogether is because it is inevitably the winners who write history, The losers of that process drift from our memory into obscurity."*It summarizes what's always going throughout history, people fighting for/holding on to influence and power where the winner, in this case a/your version of the bible is the result, to ensure that influence and power.
Thank’s Marian, I enjoyed watching “The lost gospels”.
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@wo3dan said:
Thank’s Marian, I enjoyed watching “The lost gospels”.
You're most welcome.
I also found it enjoyable and interesting.To people who might have some qualms and are not sure what that documantary is, the presenter is a Christian, an Anglican priest, also the rest of the scholars seem to be christians also, so it's not "atheistic propaganda".
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it wouldn't need to be considered as atheistic propaganda.
some people, in this case "muslim" may already know about those things before they've made such video or any other presentation.
for me, when i see the video, i think there's nothing really new on their presentation.
for others, i.e. atheist, that video might still have a crossroads ahead.
for me and any other unitarian people, that video is just another confirmation for what they've known. -
@irwanwr said:
for me and any other unitarian people, that video is just another confirmation for what they've known.
True, but don't feel safe in your faith that that means the quran or other "holy" books are right.
The quran also borrows heavily from christian writings, ones that have not been included in the bible. That only goes to show, that one religion's junk is another's treasure.
The quran is as tainted with blood and atrocities in the same measure as the bible. -
@marian said:
The quran also borrows heavily from christian writings,..
first of all Marian, it might be good if you have adequate knowledge on the matter and your statement. might be even better if you can prove it. since muslim believe that the quran was sent mostly because the rest of earlier scriptures were either vanished or corrupted.who do you think wrote it? and how do you know he/she borrowed anything from earlier scriptures?
@unknownuser said:
The quran is as tainted with blood and atrocities in the same measure as the bible.
so the atheist don't have any kind of issue regarding blood and atrocities?
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