Act of God.

irwanwr

@alan fraser said:

I'd hope so. You'd think they'd get the message about indulging in idolatry.

kidding aside. i agree with Alan on that "idolatry". that's one issue that has been rolling around among those claiming themselves as Jesus follower. yet, they don't really do what they said.

@unknownuser said:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
Exodus 20:4-5a

that verse and many other verses from most scriptures of Abrahamic religions agrees on the issue, literally and allegorically.

cornel

@‘Marian’.
You wrote that the Bible presents “god acting like a mean kid...”
Bravo, Marian! You judge God... You are greater than He is ...!?

At 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is written: “Test all things; hold fast what is good!”,
and at Ephesians 5:10 is written: Find out what is acceptable to the Lord!”
Have you complied?!

jeff hammond

@unknownuser said:

.., because God controls everything that happens in the Nature!

cool.. a spillover thread...

so i guess god controls my beliefs?
or are you saying he (why a he anyway? he has a penis or something?).. or are you saying he controls everything except wether or not i believe he's real?..

or i guess i mean (since you're obviously going to say that no, that's my choice)… what exactly does 'everything that happens in the nature" actually encompass?

let's see what fancy bible quote you come up with to talk yourself out of this one..

cornel

@ ’Marian’
Besides the multitude of good advice, the Bible presents a number of negative aspects, for people to not repeat them.
You are wrong, sayng that the Scripture promotes evil...

Alan Fraser

@unknownuser said:

Call it “An act of God”, to be more precise..., because God controls everything that happens in the Nature!

That's just plain silly. I've no problem with people believing that God might be in some way ultimately responsible, because he set the ball rolling. But that's like blaming someone on a Ford production line for an auto accident that was the result of driver error, simply because he built the car.
The idea that anyone would still believe that a divine being is directly reponsible for a golfer being struck by lightning, like Zeus sending out his thunderbolts, is both scary and laughable at the same time.

And it is an all or nothing situation if you take that stance. Either he was the original creator and everything from there pretty much runs on automatic; or he personally strikes down every person that dies in a natural catastrophe. Because if he does control everything that happens in nature then he can just as easily prevent catastrophes as cause them...he can micromanage who lives and who dies.

Marian

@unknownuser said:

@ ’Marian’
Besides the multitude of good advice, the Bible presents a number of negative aspects, for people to not repeat them.
You are wrong, sayng that the Scripture promotes evil...

@unknownuser said:

@‘Marian’.
You wrote that the Bible presents “god acting like a mean kid...”
Bravo, Marian! You judge God... You are greater than He is ...!?

Right...it doesn't promote evil, it promotes stupidity through which evil is done. Just because it has a few good advice doesn't redeem it. How many times do I have to type that!?
Yes I do judge him and all the other imagined deities. He's not my god and indeed I and most of the people I know are greater than your god. It's not that hard actually.

@unknownuser said:

At 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is written: “Test all things; hold fast what is good!”,
and at Ephesians 5:10 is written: Find out what is acceptable to the Lord!”
Have you complied?!

Test all things, including god. Check
Hold fast what is good. Check
Listening to my moral compass. Check
Being kind to others. Check
Finding out what is acceptable to your lord. Who gives a rat's ass? He finds many silly things inacceptable and many horrendous things acceptable.

TIG

The idea of a God starting the ball rolling then sitting back and watching things unfold is one thing, but if God can [and does] influence day-to-day events then we really are in a big mess.

Let's for a moment at least, assume this to be true...
Perhaps God can stop things happening - with results that we'll perceive as good or bad [God might view these results in another way from us, but being all powerful and all knowing he knows how we'll feel].
Perhaps God can also make things happen - with us perceiving good or bad results too.
BUT if God is 'goodness and light' why is he letting any bad stuff happen at all ?
If God chooses to let something [bad] happen, when it might have been prevented, then that's effectively equivalent to making it happen anyway.
If God intervenes in every event, and he lets a substantial block of bad things come to pass then he doesn't seen as 'good' to me as many make out - he's now just a 'meddler' - then why revere him ?
If God chooses to intervene just 'sometimes' then that's just capricious ! - again why revere him ?
If God decides who will benefit and who will fail etc on such a whim... - then why revere him ?
BUT conversely if he never intercedes, then he's not an active participant in today's world and why should we revere him, or ever worry about him ?
If God chooses to let bad stuff happen to punish us for our wicked-ways and misuse of the free-will he gave us then that too is lamentable - for he knew full-well what the outcome of his long running experiment would be - since he knows everything and therefore knew that giving us free-will was never going to work out well for many of us - for didn't he make us, knowing how we work and ultimately how events would unfold? If he didn't realize that, then he is not all-knowing, but a tinkering nuisance, and again doesn't deserve respect.
We also shouldn't revere him if he's still the vengeful God of the Old Testament, punishing non-believers and sinners alike, because he needs therapy - someone that powerful should not have serious anger issues like this - did he not 'smite' the first born babies in Egypt because he sided with Moses - hardly a just punishment for those innocent victims, when his gripe was with Pharaoh and his army... you shouldn't revere a bully: you might kowtow to him in case he hurts you, but 'worshiping' him would be a longterm mistake, as bullies thrive on their domination of others.

Diatribe done.

Marian

nice one TIG

john.warburton

There you go TIG - using LOGIC. Love it.

solo

You have the gift of putting your mind to pixels TIG, I totally agree but not able to articulate it as well as you.

TIG

@aerilius said:

@marian said:

nice one TIG

Marian, John, Solo, this is an old shoe, scientifically called "Theodicy". Not as if believers wouldn't ask the same questions as you...
BUT then they'll continue to believe in what exactly?

jason_maranto

I don't have a ton of time to spend on this but I think some of what you said has some need to be explained.

All processes create waste -- this is the way we tell if something is valuable, by how rare it is.

Faith is valuable because it is rare, and moreso to God because he knows how truly rare it is.

Just because a process generates waste does not mean it is a bad process so long as it returns value... this is essentially the process of human history from God's POV IMO.

He does not get involved unless one of his people are involved -- at that point it would be no different than you watching out for your family. But more than that God has a flare for making points -- he likes to punctuate his words with a very clear sign to make sure people get the point.

So to sum up:

God finds value in things precious to him because of their rarity.
God acts to protect those valued things and excludes/destroys worthless things.
God takes out the garbage periodically to clear the way for new growth and order.

You yourself engage in very similar behavior -- does this make you a bully? When you kill a bug are you evil? What makes the bugs life any less meaningful than yours?

I'll leave off with recommending Mathew chapter 7 as some good reading for this subject.

Best,
Jason.

Aerilius

@marian said:

nice one TIG

TIG, Marian, John, Solo, this is an old shoe, scientifically called "Theodicy". Not as if believers wouldn't ask the same questions as you...

TIG

BUT Jason , your argument seems to suggest that God does just what he wants, and doesn't care about the consequences for us here on the ground - he just wants 'faith' like a junkie wants H !
BUT he's the guy who set the whole system up, so knows how little/much faith there will be in HIS system.
And you suggest that then God simply 'throws away' the trash [us ?]... which he doesn't see as somehow 'worthy'. [He KNEW it wouldn't be worthy when he started - otherwise what's the use of being omniscient?]
BUT then... OK, if that's the way he works I can't do much about it... but I'll be buggered if I'll 'worship' him, as I really can't see how he deserves it at all, given your outline.

jason_maranto

That's your interpretation, and an extreme one it is...

Whenever you are building anything you expect waste, you even plan for it. So yes I do believe he knows who will respond and who will not from before the beginning and chose to pursue the creation for the sake of the few who would return love.

Value is a completely arbitrary thing, one mans trash is another mans treasure.

It's your decision whether you are trash or treasure to God -- and that is the only decision that matters... everything else is "Vanity" as Solomon says.

Best,
Jason.

gilles

The Big Dealer, Peoples opium.

cornel

’Jeff H’. Wrote: „[so i guess god controls my beliefs?
or are you saying he (why a he anyway? he has a penis or something?).. or are you saying he controls everything except wether or not i believe he's real?..]”

God controls everything, but He enable us to choose, He do not imposes us what we must commit...!
We are not predestined, but we have the freedom to select, so we are responsible for our decisions. The threat of freedom and our happiness comes not from the sovereignty of God, but from sin and from our desire to act independently of God. When Adam decided to do only what he wants, he lost his freedom. To do what we want, apart from God, is slavery ...

Re. sexual organs of a spiritual being, it is too childish... You (J.H.) have to rethink...

solo

@unknownuser said:

To do what we want, apart from God, is slavery ...

Yet God condones slavery.

Stinkie

@jason_maranto said:

So yes I do believe he knows who will respond and who will not from before the beginning and chose to pursue the creation for the sake of the few who would return love.

So humanity's a masturbation toy? I feel defiled.

cornel

‘Alan F’ wrote: “[. Because if he (God) does control everything that happens in nature then he can just as easily prevent catastrophes as cause them...he can micromanage who lives and who dies.]”

Yes Alan, our lives are in Creator’s hand, and He “can micromanage who lives and who dies”.
He can, of course, accept/prevent/limit... all catastrophes, and so on, because He is Omniscient, is Almighty, is Omnipresent...