Need help with a complex symmetrical Teaching Hospital model
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I do not relish having to sound so negative, but:
Based on your statement that the blue areas are water features,I can see where the maintenance budget for the water management would be debilitating for the entire facility.
Based on your statement that the stepped base elements is vehicular parking structure, I believe the sheer expanse of this would cause most people to avoid it. There is enough of a problem in getting people to use standard rectilinear parking garages when they have the option of parking on the ground in the daylight, though this is not shown.
How about a "design program", which is what we call the client's plan requirements in my country.
Where is the point of entry/exit for freight, supplies, refuse, etc? Where is the point of entry for arrival of patients, either voluntarily, or "escorted"? Which brings up the question- Where is the Diagnostic Function? Where is the arrival point for visitation? What do you do about Dual Diagnosis? Who sits in the towers--administrative? Who is on the corridors--patients?
Based on the apparent scale, are there that many individuals needing mental health care?
I think the Machine, in a fit of self preservation, will have to go on the hunt for the slightest aberration just to maintain a facility of this size.
And, lastly, you need an evacuation plan that does not require people in a panic to do a lot of thinking just to reach a place of safety. -
I think that there is a major misunderstanding here ....
This is never going to be a REAL WORLD structure but rather a VIRTUAL WORLD structure that will house a wide variety of clinical (not just mental healthcare) facilities. It will serve as the centerpiece for my proposed freeware healthcare education application. Therefore this THC model will be free of the usual budgetary restraints that tend to characterize the equivalent real world structures. Consequently, it should prove possible to indulge in some major creativity - the sort of creativity that is generally not permitted in real life structures ....
Perhaps someone would like to have this element of freedom to explore various exciting options ....
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Hi, SonofMoose:
Thanks for that reply and clarification. I think I now understand a little of what you hope to accomplish. As in my first response, I was missing the point. -
I could use a bit more clarification. Could you talk a bit about what your hoping your final product to be? I'm not sure I understand what a virtual teaching hospital complex is or would be used for. Who "goes" here, how do they go there, why do they go there, that sort of thing.
Those questions make a big difference in the sort of detail that goes into a model.
-Brodie
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Mitcorb and Brodie:
Thank you so much for your replies.
I am hoping to eventually develop a healthcare system simulator that will feature the main THC as its centerpiece. It will also contain a fairly detailed (schematic at the moment) map that will also feature 8 Healthcare Regions (HRs). Each HR will house a much smaller Secondary Hospital (SH) which could also be modeled. Each HR will also contain 40 suburbs. Each suburb will house a fairly small primary healthcare (PHC) clinic which could also be modeled.
The main THC is envisaged to consist of a wide variety of clinical sub/disciplines. They will each contain a largely standardized selection of clinical facilities (including clinics, units, laboratories, etc.). Therefore there will most definitely be the need to incorporate all of these structures (circa 2000 of them) into the massive THC model.
Each one of these clinical facilities will consist of various appropriate components (reception, doctor's room, nurses station, etc.). Therefore a fair amount of detail will be required in order to successfully include all of these important components. Just how much largely depends upon the willingness of my volunteers to continue working with this massive project ....
As earlier suggested, this exercise should provide the jaded professional (whose free flowing designs are invariably plagued by financial constraints) the opportunity of finally fully exercising their creativity in order to develop the complex of their dreams. This freedom represents a major opportunity to create something really special - even if it is eventually achieved by "committee" ....
Is anyone "in" ....
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Sorry for the bump - but are there any possible "takers" out there?
Especially the most recent correspondents or someone viewing this already fairly prolonged thread for the first time.
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Sorry for my density, but I'm still confused.
What is a "healthcare system simulator"?
Let's say you are able to create this vast complex (the more I hear, the more the term "vast" seems to be a colossal understatement. In truth, I don't know that all that you're looking for could possibly be contained in a single model even in 3ds Max, much less Sketchup), who will the user be and why will they be "going" there?
For such a project as this there needs to be a reason to work on it. That reason will, no doubt, either be money (which isn't the case here) or else that the person so believes in the end result that they're willing to sacrifice their valuable time. I suspect you're not getting any solid takers yet, partially, because it's unclear as to what people are sacrificing their time for. I could sacrifice my time to build furniture models I could sell on turbosquid or I could sacrifice my time to build house models for Habitat for Humanity and know that I'm helping people get homes, but I'm not sure what you're offering. You say that it is a chance to express creative design freedom but who is your audience? You're trying to find healthcare designers who are frustrated with design limitations, have a great deal of modeling capability as well as free time on their hands? No such person exists, and if they did they could just as easily design their own virtual hospital without any collaboration as their own creative outlet.
So far I get the impression that you want to make, not just a massive hospital, but rather a complete idealized healthcare system along with sub systems each with varying degrees of detail. You've told me WHAT it is, but not WHY it should exist in the first place.
-Brodie
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Hello Brodie
Thank you so much for your latest reply.
You are indeed asking some hugely relevant questions that most definitely need to be adequately addressed. I am (at the very least) looking to develop a freeware healthcare education programme initially targeted at local high school students interested in pursuing a career within the Healthcare Sciences (although it should also appeal to anyone with an interest in the structure and function of a modern healthcare system).
The flagship of this project will undoubtedly be the main Teaching Hospital complex (THC) because of its sheer size and complexity due to the wide range of clinical facilities contained within it. At the moment (largely due to its enormous size), it is being depicted in an entirely abstract fashion within our Schematic World Map.
Each of the yellow vertical columns below the image of Groote Schuur Hospital (24 + 22) represents a specific clinical discipline based upon 18 anatomical systems. Each individual striped tile featured within each of these 46 columns represents a specific clinical subdiscipline. Each clinical subdiscipline will generally consist of seven or eight clinical facilities. Therefore there is a titanic amount of detail contained within the main THC.
Each clinical discipline, clinical subdiscipline and clinical facility will be described and explained to the user. This might only represent the beginning of the educational process.
While (in some respects) the abstract schematic approach might potentially work better, I am convinced that the use of suitable (preferably high quality) architectural models would serve to greatly enhance the quality and ultimately success of the envisaged product. I would be most happy to actively discuss all relevant ways of upgrading our purely schematic application into something far more striking.
Above is an earlier version of our Schematic World Map showing the central position of our main THC. There will be eight much smaller Secondary Hospitals (SHs) positioned around it. Each SH will have multiple Primary Healthcare (PHC) clinics situated around them.
Even at the most basic level, a degree of interactivity between these various healthcare facilities is envisaged. At a more advanced level, various healthcare variables could be added in order to hugely enhance this ability.
I am not too sure whether this diatribe adequately answers your "WHY" - although it does possibly add somewhat to the "WHAT" ....
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Indeed, you've clarified the "what" further. It's a standalone freeware software containing an entire healthcare system.
And the "who." It's for anyone wanting to learn more about the structure and function of a healthcare system.
Now back to the "why". Perhaps some more specific questions would help to flesh this out.
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Why a theoretical idealized system rather than a real world system. Why not just take a system like Catholic Healthcare West and illustrate how it runs, what it's hospitals are like, how they're interconnected, etc.?
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Will the users be able to literally walk through the model? If so, shouldn't it be based on real world rules like concern for departmental adjacencies and circulation space? If the user can't walk around then why not just model the individual rooms where the user can navigate without modeling circulation, exteriors, etc.?
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Why freeware? Why not make money for the time and effort?
-Brodie
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Brodie:
Although the healthcare system is presently somewhat theoretical and idealized (one has to start somewhere), I am trying extremely hard to base it upon the local (anything but idealized) system. I live in Cape Town (South Africa) where healthcare service delivery is in a major crisis. To state it somewhat bluntly, there are way too few healthcare facilities (especially at the primary level), far too few healthcare professionals (workers) and (correspondingly) way too many patients. Apart from anything else (and I freely admit that this is potentially extremely naive), I strongly feel that local people should know what is considered as appropriate (not even ideal) to their needs ....
Lets just say that the local healthcare system is severely damaged ....
As for the amount of user interactivity offered. That will obviously (as always) dependent upon the amount of voluntary assistance that I can obtain in this regard. I would certainly strongly desire the ability for the user to be able to literally walk through the various healthcare facility models. I feel that this would not only add immensely to the overall value of this application (as presently perceived) but also potentially provide multiple avenues for future expansion ....
[At present separate rooms depicting the huge number of individual clinical facilities are perceived. There will obviously only be a handful of template designs (mainly for each type of facility). They will be separately linked to the Schematic World Map but will obviously not be interlinked to each other within a separate main THC (SH or PHC clinic) model. A separate main THC (SH or PHC clinic) model (as a replacement for the various healthcare facility images) would surely represent the proverbial "Royal Road" ....].
Btw: Verisimilitude will be key to this project. However (for the reasons stated above), I have little reason no wish to replicate the conditions prevalent within our public healthcare system (although it could be ultimately be possible to "chop-and-change" the number and quality of existing healthcare service facilities) in order to simulate different types of service delivery ....
I strongly feel that this information should be freely available to the public - especially to the school going children of historically disadvantaged people who still live under a heavy burden of inadequate housing and disease. As I am currently unemployed (and looking after my 88 year old Alzheimer's affected mother in-between working on this project), I do intend to try to seek sponsorship (both personal and for the project) once something more meaningful (i.e. more content) has been created ....
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If you don't mind I'll reply both to your post as well as your private message here as it's probably beneficial for anyone coming along later and reading through this to have all this info in one spot.
In response to your question about where I'm from, I'm from the United States. I gather that your healthcare system is more publicaly funded? We have some publicly funded hospitals here but most tend to be run privately, mostly by religious organizations.
Your project certainly sounds interesting and I could probably continue asking questions for a long time to come but I think you've answered most of what I've asked pretty well. Do to a busy schedule I can't make any real promises about how available I'd be but I'm at least interested to see what exactly you'd want me to work on. Do you have any specifics as to what the next step is that you'd want me (or someone else like me who may be reading this) to work on?
-Brodie
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Brodie:
We possess an excellent private healthcare system that serves the less than 20 per cent of the population that can afford it. Sadly (as previously intimated) the public healthcare system is meant to service the remaining 80+ per cent of the population (including virtually all our historically disadvantaged communities). Therefore it is not too difficult to see the huge disparity that presently exists between the private and the public sectors with respect to the quality of services offered.
As stated in my PM, this regrettable but inescapable fact is one of the main reasons that motivates my interest in this project ....
I suppose that there are two potential areas in which you or any future volunteer could work:
In developing a series of related outlines for the main categories of individual clinical facilities (such as clinics/outpatients departments, units/wards, clinical diagnostic laboratories, etc.). I already have a fairly good outline for a unit/ward in Google SketchUp (previously developed by a volunteer architect) that could hopefully be further refined.
(In many respects I now hesitate to ask) - but in developing an outline for the main THC. As previously mentioned, I have a less complex version of it in (iirc) 3ds Max 2008 format. Maybe it could at least somehow be used to showcase our still rather bland and basic product?
In many respects, I need further advice as to how precious voluntary architectural services could be best used to advance our project which is (in itself) a genuine attempt to uplift (the healthcare knowledge of) historically disadvantaged communities.
We really do need as much assistance as we can obtain ....
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Perhaps you can post one or both of the files for users here to take a look at. Maybe post them through dropbox ( http://db.tt/j2IZMoG ) or something similar. That'll give me, and perhaps others, a chance to get familiar with what you already have and perhaps take it to the next level. If you post the .max file I can convert it to sketchup for others to open up.
-Brodie
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One might need to initially import the attached (zipped) 3ds Max 2008 file/s into SketchUp version 6 in order to obtain a functional SU file which can then presumably be updated to the latest version of SU.
If anyone is genuinely interested in becoming voluntarily involved in this potentially most meaningful project (by taking the attached file/s to the next level of functionality), please PM me. Although this forum is an excellent resource for exchanging ideas and work files, it will probably prove much easier to ultimately develop an e-mail based "relationship" outside of this venue ....
I truly look forward to receiving some feedback - either in this thread or via a PM ....
Zipped copy of latest 3ds Max 2008 THC (old style) design
Zipped copy of a slightly earlier 3ds Max 2008 THC (old style) design
Zipped copy of 3ds Max 2011 proposed THC typical ward design
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Sorry for the bump - but hopefully someone might possibly be interested in doing something with the attached files and slowly pulling this project forward ....
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Hi Jeremy,
Would it be possible to post the files in 3ds format. As far as I know you can only convert max files with 3DS Max in 3ds files.
Charly
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Hi Charly
Herewith are attached the two 3DS Max files exported as two 3ds files ....
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Charly:
Please let me know (possibly via PM) whether you have had any luck with viewing the above files and what you think of them.
I really need your ongoing assistance if you are sufficiently interested to assist me with this extremely ambitious design ....
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Any other possible takers?
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@sonofmoose said:
Hello
"I am a registered medical practitioner with a research Masters degree in Psychiatry and Mental Health who is extremely interested in the ability of computers to play an important role in both professional and lay person healthcare education. As a direct result of this interest, I have been working for the past six years on my proposed freeware healthcare education application (simulation) that is initially aimed at high school students."
Not in healthcare field nor architecture but have done technical management of 1/2 billion dollar programs. As you are well aware form follows function and I see your goal above but suddenly find you in the detail of the structure design, water features, parking grages etc. with a considerable time elapsed and I ask my self the question are you stove piped ? I see no relationship to the following discussions and your goal above. I may be worth your time to set down and draft a spec. or specs ( In this case it would be a software or model requirements ). My contention is your goals can be more quickly obtained by possibility a number of modules vs trying build a very complex initial model. Once those basics are done then the integration of those into a much larger model can be done on a timed sequenced basis?
Sorry if I am completely off the mark but I think your lack of progress, the number of questions and vol. support etc. some what supports my thoughts.SoM [Jeremy]
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