Light-Up v2 - Bad customer experience !!
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...or keep informed.
My point is, when nothings happened ( like agreements, rules... ) what should people decide when to buy a software?
LightUp is a small one. Do you think if Adobe make such a deal with 1200 € and you have to pay a week later for the same package ( Remember you don't know the release date and there are no arrangements) 1900 € ( Full package + update ), you are happy?
The difference is they have rules and everybody can inform itself how it is managed.
Informations and arrangements!...and leave or leave not is a kick in the ass answer for every customer.
DacaD beats me
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Yes, I exactly understand that point. In fact, even though I would have already needed it, I did not buy SU Pro 5 because I wanted to avoid the upgrade fee (although as it turned out later, there was no fee between 5 and 6). I was simply quite broke around that time (and salaries are also not that big in this part of the World).
What I was saying is that there is also a common practice; not to announce release dates. Especially with "one-man-shows" like Adam's, as you never know when you can actually finish a new release (or when Google releases its new version where certain bugs are fixed therefore you constantly rely on 3rd parties). It is probably not that easy.
Look at the Thea development. According to the original roadmap, it should be out of Beta for about a year now.
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The developer of Cheetah3D is also a one man operation; he usually offers a grace period that he will announce before a new version release.
So, without actually announcing a release date, he gives a free upgrade if you bought the previous version after a certain date.
With LU, because ver 2 costs more than ver 1, perhaps a period of time where the consumer is offered the option of buying ver 1 and then upgrading or paying the higher ver 2 price and then they receive ver 1 until ver 2 is ready and then it is a "free" upgrade.
I would have gone for this option, for sure. Instead, I was one of the few who got caught in the middle, but, oh well, S%$^ happens. FWIW, I think the upgrade price is very fair and that ver 2 costs more than ver 1 makes sense, too, especially when considering the soon to arrive timeline editor.
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Which way Adam want to go is his decision. A release date is not needed, but then there must be an arrangement, in any way, to keep customers informed.
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Plenty of software vendors do offer free upgrades to new versions for customers who purchased the older version within a certain period of the new version being released. Just how long such a period should be is open to debate and there is nothing to force vendors to do this at all, but it would be a good way of treating customers!
I've bought software on more than one occasion where the vendor stated up front that because a new version was soon to be released that I would get the newer version free of charge when it became available.
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I have received a mail by Adam who said to me "That software cannot charge for upgrades? That is just the reality of software development. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade."
Of course this is not my point and some of you understand. To be clear, If I buy one year ago a full license and pay this reasonable 69$ upgrade I would be happy. If it was 6 month ago, I would be unhappy but no complains. Three month ago... If the v1 price + 69$ upgrade is the same as V2 full license especially for recent customer... I do not have complains.
License and upgrade are as rent and they have to be balanced on time.
A version number 2 is not a new product it's an improvement of a version 1.
Some of you said bigger software company do worst, but some of them pay the price of their strategy ! Do you remember Quark X Press ? Another example is music. In France ten years ago a music CD coast 40 to 50% more than anywhere, just like that for no reason. The result is many artist have now to produce themselves and government multiply anti-piracy regulations...
For some of you who develop and sell plugins or resources for SketchUp, I would like to share with you some advice and remarks from people we met.
Selling, trading is a profession and you have to understand customer basic psychology, trade strategy and habits, if your business... and price grow up ! If the price is low, your strategic mistakes doesn't matter !
Notably because SketchUp user's may be enthusiast and share their experience. I do it now as a professional since more than three years as trainer.
People are very interesting to discover third party solution for specific problems, and regularly some buy them. We buy our softwares, don't ask privilege from developers and help them to buy it without they know it !
About the new price of Adam's plugin, it's another debate but I'm not sure he is right (I don't test benefits of V2), but his product is specific. It's not a rendering plug-in that may replace other plug-ins.
Unfortunately I push the button this morning and we are done with Adam. What I asked for, is not for me but for every new customer. It's basic and I have no more time for that.
About LightUp, the reply from the director from my company is short and clear : "Thanks for the advice, information will be relayed". -
@john.warburton said:
Just how long such a period should be is open to debate and there is nothing to force vendors to do this at all, but it would be a good way of treating customers!
He did buy the software 2 months prior to the new release. But like you said, its debateble.
Putting on my lawyer hat, the retailer is bound by law
not to mislead or deceive the consumer. Consumer laws
are very tight and strict but this customer was
not mislead or deceived into any purchase. Now, if during the period of
purchase, Light up CO. made false claims that no new upgrade is
to be released i see no reason to fit this transaction within
confines of deception. In certain transaction silence can be construed
to mislead but that usually involves hiding certain additional costs,etc.
This is just the gist and additional elements have not been accounted for,
example, terms of the purchase contract/license that bounded the parties. -
@fuzzion said:
Putting on my lawyer hat, the retailer is bound by law
not to mislead or deceive the consumer.This is not a question of law, and if so I do not care.
It is a matter of commercial software and in any case, I realize that this is the first time this has happened to me! ( but maybe I had much luck so far...! )
As someone had said, Adam is notobliged to to be friendly with new customers and nothing forbids me to express my displeasure about, to discourage its product in our network .
And "icing on the cake, " I sometimes write articles ... I actually dropped one day a product.Anyway, even if Adam changed his mind, it is you who would benefit, because in our case we made a final decision.
This discussion has enlightened us! (laughter)We can not afford to take the risk of discontent from one of our clients deal with such petty practices.
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What I find quite amusing about this whole dialog is the amount of billable time that was sacrificed in order to rant about $33. When we first purchased ICG's Builder's Cad software in 1991, it was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $10,000, mind you, you did have this cool isometric view that was...wait for it...'shaded'.
If $33 is too much to pay for a full version upgrade, with free incremental version updates, then you're expecting a bit too much from the developer...unless of course, as a registered architect, you're only charging $1.81/hr. for your valuable time.
Just because there are incredibly generous contributors out there, like TIG, THOM THOM, FREDO, etc., a precedent is not established that says everything needs to be free, or it's a rip-off. According to what I've read prior, the version 1 software was used for 2 months...is it remotely tactful complaining about a usage fee of 55 cents/day?
Maybe the global economy is worse than I thought...
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@john.warburton said:
Plenty of software vendors do offer free upgrades to new versions for customers who purchased the older version within a certain period of the new version being released.
Exactly...
Adobe was mentioned somewhere and they do give a free upgrade if you purchase shortly prior to a release of a new version...
I don't think they need to, but they just do it because they want to please their customers - even the new customers... -
Boy you sure like to talk about how connected you are and speak about how you will tell everyone and their brother about your bad experience and how they should not use Adam's software. Sounds more like slander to me as most of Adam's customers seem pretty pleased with the software. Was your hope to threaten Adam with all your connections and possible lost clients if you spoke bad about a product in the hopes he would say "please no, don't tell all the millions of people who worship your opinion.....Here take this upgrade at no cost". I love how in your mind everyother software company is OK for their practices although Adam is SO wrong for the same style upgrade charges. Why didn't you ask Adam BEFORE you purchased, "Is there a major upgrade in the future and if I buy now what will the policy be for the upcoming upgrade?". Sure seems like that would have saved your heart and mouth from running out of control....JUST SAYIN!
Scott
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Sorry for your troubles Christophe, we are stuck in a world that's for profit and one for humanity, unfortunately the two will never see eye to eye. I'm still using your Stairmaker.rb and without learning from your code I would not have been able to create addtional stair rubies.
p.s I hope I'm addressing this to the correct person: Christophe HŽbert - 2004 Version StairMaker Alpha 0.52
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thats not expensive for an upgrade....its standard practice.
i don't think this is the place to dirty the public image of light up.
an email to adam should have been enough!
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