RANT!!
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@unknownuser said:
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.
Nope, it's the Tea party pandering.
When in the past 74 times that the debt cieling been raised has there been a shit storm like this? NONE!
Why?'cause y'all repugs/teabaggers will do anything to destroy Obama, even if it means destroying your own counrty in the process.
George Bush raised it 7 times, Reagan raised it 18 times, but y'all said f@ck all, but when Obama does it then y'all make it out to be the end of the world.
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Well Solo I see you are a good liberal. It only took two replies before you stooped to calling people names. Not a record, but fast, very fast. Curious why a liberal would find it OK to call people by a derogatory gay sexual act. No need to answer.
Now, for the question of the day, list the Democratic senators that voted for a debt ceiling raise when there was a Republican President?
When in the past 74 times have we been this far in debt. Nada.
As for destroying my country, nope, trying save this country, from a complete failure to be able to pay our future debts. No, I love my country. Just took a big hit on my retirement income the last couple of days. Not worried or mad, just know that we can not keep promising and promising without reaching the limit of our wealth, which I believe we have already exceeded.
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Does the word Teabagger offend you? really?
Nothing 'Gay'on my side,just a buch of redneck yahoo's...ah! yes the homophobic party...I forgot.
Best result on that page:
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Faultily information your definitions, a process people who have no facts or wish to obscure the facts use to misguide and confuse the audience.
Definition for teabagging:
To tea bag is a slang term for the act of a man placing his scrotum in the mouth of a sexual partner. The practice resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea when it is done in a repeated in-and-out motion. As a form of non-penetrative sex, it can be done for its own enjoyment or as foreplay.
The web site, how does this web site further or clarify the conversation about how far in debt we are as a nation?
So you didn't even try to answer the question about the senators.
Signed the Carefox, "Show me the plan"
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@ Teabagging.I'm shocked you'd assume I mean't that, I'm shocked that such an act even exists.
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@unknownuser said:
Definition for teabagging:
To tea bag is a slang term for the act of a man placing his scrotum in the mouth of a sexual partner. The practice resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea when it is done in a repeated in-and-out motion. As a form of non-penetrative sex, it can be done for its own enjoyment or as foreplay.
ok where does it say it has to be a man? (your "Curious why a liberal would find it OK to call people by a derogatory gay sexual act. No need to answer.")
by your definition, it's "partner" - can be man or woman...and why is it "derogatory"?
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Not really interested in defining "teabagging". What I am interested in is why people who say WHOA! on the mounting debt have to be demonized. Where is the give take on the virtue of trying to have a viable country.
Enough already, got to get to work. It has been fun, however not very enlightening.
Carefox signing off. "Show me the plan"
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@unknownuser said:
Not really interested in defining "teabagging". What I am interested in is why people who say WHOA! on the mounting debt have to be demonized.
actually I don't care about your country or it's debt or "demonizing" said country/debt. tho you just demonized this act.. I do care about this "teabagging". what is it? is it fun? can I find someone to try it with? etc.
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I think we all are saying whao to the mounting debt even what some call libs dem or whatever. Its the other side that doesnt recognize that we have to raise taxes on the wealthy "job creators" (where r the jobs) to help payoff or down the debt as well. If we know the house is on fire we put out the fire and not let the house burn down pointing out how the fire got started. Has nothing to do with transfering money. We dont we call it transfering wealth when the moneys going in the other direction. If those at the top don't contribute to solving problem the mayhem in the marketsd will continue. Too bad it had to come to this. Now it will be a more expensive fix. Stay Calm.....
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lapx
Yes, increasing the taxes, doubling the taxes, taking all income for taxes will help, but then you will still need more. It needs to end now, not by taxing everyone, but by reducing our debt and eliminating or reducing our future promises to people that is adding still more debt.
I work for my family, and when I get to the point that I am working to keep other people afloat, I am gone. Moving on. Right now you wish to tax the rich, they don't make enough money to pay for the promises we have made. Right now 50% of the population pay no taxes, or get a return bigger than the taxes that was withheld during the year and these are the very people clamoring ,"tax the rich". If it was up to me, everyone would pay taxes, even if it was only $5 per year. You need skin in the game to understand what is happening.
http://www.heritage.org/BudgetChartBook/entitlements-historical-tax-levels
This discussion reminds me of a friend problem a couple years ago. One month he paid $500 to get his truck fixed. The next month another $200 to get it fixed. The next month, he put $2500 down and had a note of $350 per month. Now he was happy, he wouldn't have to shell out all that money for repairing his old truck, and he saw nothing wrong with his decision. Of course he was in the same predicament a couple of years later, paying to have his truck fixed again. Never understanding, that money spent in preventative repairs, oil changes, just general servicing would reduce his debt load from his trucks.
Put me in the group of "Equal opportunity, not equal results".
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Ken,
You are kind of all over the place on this - but I agree strongly with one thing you said. Not the teabagger definiton
(learn something new here everyday) but the five words ("I will not run again") reference! We suffer from a lack of leadership in all facets of the government (President and both Houses) as partisan politics rule the day and every politician's first priroity once they are elected seems to be pandering to those that will help to get them re-elected. I would be really interested to see how it would work if we eliminated politics as a profession and made it all single 4 year terms, and you could only run again after sitting out a term. I think that would be much more of a "for the people by the people" approach.The market reactions to the S&P ratings reflect a clear lack of confidence that the current group in both the Whitehouse and on Capitol Hill will be able to get past the Politics and deal with the financial issues that are facing this country. While the economists don't agree on all of the points - if you read through what they write or listen to their comments, there are some clear basic concepts and no one in the Government seems to want to listen.
On top of all of this - if you look closely at who is lining up to take the next shot at it in 2012............scary
Dean
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Bytor
Not sure why you would say I am all over the place. The truck story was just a reference to the fact that spending sometimes appears to eradicate the money problem, but the real solutions is in taking care of the truck, spending the money more wisely than just buying another truck. And this is what I see in our government right now. Adding more and more money to solve all problems, when the real solution may be by other means.
As an example, our schools. Look at all the money we spend on new schools, under the impression that at a new clean school, students will be better prepared. When the real solution is to send better students to school. And better students come from better parenting at the home and a system that is welling to rid the school of students that are trouble makers and disrupt the class rooms. And yes I know that is extreme and I am not advocating wholesale removing of students. Just the students that are not reachable in regular school system. Maybe have them removed or attend a special school.
I have taken a few job related short term classes for special projects. And if you were not ready and willing to be an active participant, out you were. Talk about the instructor having your attention.
On top of all of this - if you look closely at who is lining up to take the next shot at it in 2012............scary
Not sure who scares you in the present group. I guess you had no fear in the last election.
Lapx
I meant by "I am gone", that I would just retire completely, not add anything to the society, just be a taker.
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Ken,
All over the place was in reference to starting to debate the debt issue and then wandering through teabagging, taxes, a truck story and now public schools. I was trying to pin down exactly what you and Solo were originally debating but I think that is moot now.
So if by the truck story analogy you mean we can't just expect to print more money to get out of this - then I agree. And the out of control spending is the issue. The undertone I get is that you pay your taxes and don't like pulling your own weight when the "freeloaders" skate - I couldn't agree more. While the schools are a whole other issue - I understand your sentiment and agree that the problem starts at home. I paid to send 4 of my kids to parochial school through 6th grade for the discipline and the education. 2 of them continued through high school. It was really tough finacially for many years and we went without a lot of the things I saw other people have like new cars every 2 years, etc. - but it was the best money I have spent to date!
All of the options right now scare me. As a "cured" republican - I bought into that message of hope only to see the messenger lose his convictions the mimnute his party started calling in their marker for helping to put him in office. I think it will be interesting to see how the next 15 months work out. We have seen the effects of the promise of "change" over the last two elections (2008 / 2010) and how is that working out for us?
The reality is we needed to achieve 4 Trillion in cuts, and there were plenty of opportunities to get there. Neither side could stomach the compromise needed to get there!
So - for me it is a full circle back to the original topic of RANT - both sides (Republican & Democrat) piss me off!
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While I don't agree with Solo's method of stating a fact, he is right about the debt limit and the current political shenanigans occurring around it. As for the rebuttal from Ken, I have liberal leanings and take offense at branding us all with such a broad brush. I have seen worse things than Solo's comments pass through my spam folder about Obama, should I label all conservatives religious fascists interested in protecting the rich? I think conservatives might find that offensive too...
As far as the things happening with the Tea Party, they are a distraction; the conservatives only paint 50% of the picture and the dems the other 50%. The problem is that the US debt limit does not account for money we owe ourselves, things like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are not included in the official US debt. We all know the baby boomers are going to be hitting the government age for drawing social security and IIRC that will be on the order of 3 trillion a year (if all 75+ million boomers draw around $40,000 a year) that has to be paid for along with the other items that we have to pay for. IMO the conservative/tea party movement to hold the country hostage and affecting world markets for personal political gain (yes, it is personal. The facts about actual US debt are no secret to them) is absurd.
Cutting alone (the Republican/Tea Party method) will NOT work. Absolutely. Positively. Will. Not. Work.
Raising taxes alone (the Dem's method) is in the same hole. Will. Not. Work.
The two sides have such strong prejudices against the other, some IMO are right, but that doesn't take away from the fact that cuts must be made. Consolidation of the hundreds of redundant government organizations from federal to state needs to be done. Term limits. Tort reform. Taxes need to go up. Federal employees should not be making absurd 6 figure salaries on top of government pensions and health care. The list goes on and on. Conservatives need to stop protecting the tax breaks and loopholes for corporations and the rich. Dems need to stop creating more and more redundant programs that siphon up tax money that could be used to pay down this debt.
If you are frothing at the mouth Dem, Tea party or conservative, I suggest you do some research that doesn't center on Bill Oreilly, Fox, MSNBC or whatever single source agency you draw from and start collecting some real facts about what is happening. And for heaven's sake, stop saying only one side is right. That's like saying a fork stuck in your right eye is better than getting one stuck in your left!
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Bytor
Fair enough Bytor. Yes, I see that I was wandering in trying to cover a lot of ground in a short space. Thanks for the conversation. My original thought came to me while driving, just what could the President, after giving endless and totally void of any workable ideas lectures, say that would energize the private sector to start hiring, and the five words answer was my thought. I was looking for the short terse phase that would be forever remembered, such as "I have not yet begun to fight", "Nuts", and "Here, hold my beer and watch this".
EscapeArtist
Yes it was a broad brush and for that I will apologize. I will narrow my brush the next time. I agree that cutting spending alone will not work. However, if we start with a good dose of cutting, and the elected officials are in agreement that we have a debt problem, then taxing should come aboard to help get us back to financial responsibility. For me, cuts first, not necessary all the required cuts, than taxes to start the pay down of the debt, and then more cuts and more taxes until the debt is under control. I am not advocating a "cold turkey" debt diet, but more of a Nutrisystem of a dieting.
I don't believe I said that one side is always right. If it was implied, not my intention.
So, thanks, Bytor and EscapeArtist for the conversation.
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Ken,
Your didnt understand me. We all agree it needs to end now. And the only way to do that is have everyone help put out the fire.
@unknownuser said:
I work for my family, and when I get to the point that I am working to keep other people afloat, I am gone.
@unknownuser said:I hope ur not serious becacuse you will have to leave the planet. Those of us who are more fortunate have been doing this already for a few decades and it has gotten worse as a result of the politicians and big corps we have. We still have to pull together to put out the fire and then we make tough decisions about what we do from there. It sucks but thats life. The repubs and fox news need to stop poor mouthing the pres and come up with some real solutions. Dems and Repubs broke us with the stupid wars using sledge hammer philosophy. Were they really making us safe? I never believed this. I cant believe they are waiting on leadership when the house is burning.Put out the fire.
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@unknownuser said:
I will narrow my brush the next time. I agree that cutting spending alone will not work. However, if we start with a good dose of cutting, and the elected officials are in agreement that we have a debt problem, then taxing should come aboard to help get us back to financial responsibility. For me, cuts first, not necessary all the required cuts, than taxes to start the pay down of the debt, and then more cuts and more taxes until the debt is under control. I am not advocating a "cold turkey" debt diet, but more of a Nutrisystem of a dieting.
Quite reasonable, and agreed. Now if we could get the politicians on board with this we might actually get somewhere. Unfortunately it seems the issue has been sidetracked into cutting only.
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@unknownuser said:
Ken wrote:
I will narrow my brush the next time. I agree that cutting spending alone will not work. However, if we start with a good dose of cutting, and the elected officials are in agreement that we have a debt problem, then taxing should come aboard to help get us back to financial responsibility. For me, cuts first, not necessary all the required cuts, than taxes to start the pay down of the debt, and then more cuts and more taxes until the debt is under control. I am not advocating a "cold turkey" debt diet, but more of a Nutrisystem of a dieting.Ditto,
Now if we can get our "leaders" to think like this. Maybe they need to learn sketchup
In the mean time porfolios are being wiped out.
They have given the short sellers more ammunition. -
This makes me angry. I will eternally blame the Bush administration for creating a moral void that made atrocities like these possible. And no, I am not an 'anti-American'. I simply object to that particular and volatile combination of imperialism, cynicism, and aggression brought to the world stage by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld et al.
I sincerely hope the next US president won't be a Tea Party-backed neocon hawk. Although the momentum Bush and his cronies profited from has, I think, passed.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/31/2384542/wikileaks-iraqi-children-in-us.html
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An Anti-Rant...
I contacted my local representative who is the Republican Sam Johnson regarding an issue I'm irate about. I tried to make sure my letter was respectful as I wanted him to actually read and not just discard it.
To my delight he actually read it, and gave me an answer, here I was thinking these guys don't listen.
Sure his answer is very partisan and in line with the popular Tea party ideology, but nevertheless he took the time to explain his stance to a democrat that in no way can help or hurt his cause.
Kudo's to you sir.
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