BP - A hatchet job
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Bob,
I share your concern regarding the distribution of the emergency compensation funds. This situation is drawing politicians and lawyers out of the woodwork. Hopefully their profiteering can be minimized so that the people affected are able to receive at least some relief in a timely manner. If not - the people that truly need the help will become even more desperate than they already are, while the BS and political posturing continues.
I don’t agree with you about BP being commended for their response at this point. If they wanted to remain afloat and not suffer even more severe public relations hits - they had to do something. Without the position and persistence of the administrations “outrage” - do you think this step ( or the delay of dividend payouts ) would have happened on it’s own? I don’t, and if I was a BP stockholder - I would have been pissed if they had done this voluntarily. While again I clarify that I am not an Obama supporter, nor do I agree with most of his current spend crazy policies - I feel he did exactly what he had to do, including the 6 month deep well drilling moratorium. While he is taking a blasting politically on this (thousands of jobs in limbo - more damage to gulf coast economies - big $ oil pressure, etc.) it just seems like common sense at first glance.
The thing that bothers me as an American with environmental concerns is why the administration is being blasted on all fronts about the moratorium on NEW deep wells. As a result of the spill - there still is no change in the regulations such that they require the additional safety measures with deep well’s that other countries require. There is no indication that the MMS will be better prepared to monitor compliance of deep well sites, and eliminate the practice of issuing environmental waivers. And even with the existing deep wells that are allowed to continue operating - does anyone really think there is any capacity to deal with an additional incident if it were to occur?
With regards to your continued need to relate the Union Carbide Bhopal disaster to the Deepwater Horizon spill. Beyond your initial perception that the administration and to an extent the American people as a whole were being tougher on BP because they were not an American corporation, your references seem pretty off-base and rather hypocritical to me. Do you seriously think that the people of Bhopal give a rat’s behind about what the current president of the US ( yes the one sworn in 24 years after the Union Carbide disaster) is outraged about? While I think they deserved to see Warren Anderson in the Indian court system - why would they care if he was put in front of the circus clowns that are the US Congress?
Tony Hayward earned his time in that seat. While I agree with Solo that these types of hearings are usually nothing more than political theater for show - there are often occasions where you can take something away from them. What I took away is confirmation that a certain Texas congressman is a complete big $ oil shill that doesn’t deserve to represent working class Americans. I also learned that BP’s CEO is willing to take one for the team, and that BP should seriously be looking for a new PR firm!
Dean
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excuse me Mike 1158, to interrupt and get in,
but here is a good new for allYouTube - Smart Pipe Company Inc-Proposed Solutions for Gulf Oil Spill
[flash=480,385:35sfp7li]http://www.youtube.com/v/qzSPeuKw36w&hl=es_ES&fs=1[/flash:35sfp7li]thanks
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i was not talking about money
i was talking about acting
NOW
just in case
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A recent article in the Independent.
I am not the only one who sees the irony (and hypocracy) of America's response to the oil spill in the Gulf.
I applaud Frank Pallone for his outspoken views on Bhopal:
"Spin doctors in the Obama administration have projected Monday’s lame verdict in the Bhopal gas tragedy as “closure” for the Indian victims, but powerful Democratic congressman Frank Pallone Jr. broke rank by blasting the verdict as “outrageous.” He called on Wednesday for the extradition of former Union Carbide Corp CEO Warren Anderson, 90, to India to stand trial."
For the full article go to:
The link between "compensation for Bhopal victims", and improved American-Indian relations (for 'improved American-Indian relations' read 'improved business opportunities') rather diminishes the moral stance suggested by the opening paragraph.
A recent news clip from the BBC
'The man running the $20bn (£13.5bn) fund to compensate Gulf of Mexico oil spill victims says he is determined to speed up the payment of claims. Kenneth Feinberg said President Barack Obama wanted to "get these claims paid. Get them paid quickly". He also said he would "err on the side of the claimant" in assessing emergency claims from fishermen and businesses.'
Now there's a surprise! Guess a little creative accounting is in the pipleine (forgive the pun). Now, was that one ton of shrimps, or two?
Someone accused me of hypocracy, and then presumed to know the feelings of the people of Bhopal towards the BP payout. This from another article on the 'nuclear deal' between India and America:
"It is bizarre to see a leader of the developing world offer up its citizens' lives cheaply to secure investment from foreign companies and governments. Under the civil liabilities for nuclear damage bill, central to a deal with the controversial nuclear pact with the US, costs for cleaning up a catastrophic failure would end up being paid by the Indian taxpayer. Sure, India is desperate for the nuclear deal – which will see it become the only nonpermanent member of the UN security council to keep its atomic weapons and trade in nuclear know-how. But at what price? Today we know. Washington made it clear it wanted India to set the bar low on liability – so that shareholders of large US corporations would not be forced to pay out for sloppy, deadly mistakes. So any future victims in India would be left at the mercy of the country's justice system, like those poor souls who lost lives, loved ones and their health and were condemned to spending years lost in the courts with little to show but false hope."
Full article here http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2010/jun/10/obama-lessons-bhopal-bp
Now that is what I call breathtaking hypocracy.
Two extracts from this article that appeared in the Asia Times (http://theglobalrealm.com/2010/06/19/bhopal-bp-and-karma/)
"Americans have mass cognitive dissonance with respect to their self-image. In their own minds, they view the American system as “fair, equitable, meritocratic, innovative and good”. They also perceive that this view is considerably different in the minds of foreigners: “greedy, evil, litigious, hypocritical, lazy”. Americans view their enterprise system through companies like Apple, Google and Boeing. The rest of the world views the system through the eyes of companies like GM, Goldman Sachs and McDonald’s."
and
"The lack of reaction to the Union Carbide issue renders comical the US media reaction to the BP situation where a “mere” 11 people died compared with the thousands in India. It is a big environmental disaster, but then again, if all that oil hadn’t been lost to the sea it would have simply ended up in the gas tanks of American vehicles and polluted the whole world. In that respect, having it leak and polluting “only” the swamplands of southern US can be considered a “good” thing for the rest of the world."
So, not a lot of sympathy from some parts of the world. I hasten to add that this is not a view that I hold as I see it as an environmental disaster that affects us all, but I suspect that the people of Bhopal do care more than a 'rats arsehole'about the disparity in the payouts.
My wife is Indian and we visit India often, so perhaps that makes me biased.
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Bob,
I believe I now understand you passionate responses and desire to tie the Bhopal disaster to the spill. We are all biased by our very nature and existence - there is no escape from it. For the record, as stated before - I have no issue with the extradition of Warren Anderson to India to stand trial. And regardless of the current administration's BS response and spin - the amout of the Bhopal victim award is obscenely inappropriate. I doubt there would be even half that amount left to distribute after all of the lawyers are paid. But I won't go any further into the expanding dialog on US - Indian relations as it doesn't (in my opinion) further the discussion of the original topic. Maybe another time or another thread - but I would think we would likely tend to agree more than you might think.
@unknownuser said:
Someone accused me of hypocracy, and then presumed to know the feelings of the people of Bhopal towards the BP payout. This from another article on the 'nuclear deal' between India and America:
To clarify hypocritical reference - it was aimed at your insistence that BP is an international conglomerate as compared your broader America(n(s))references when discussing Union Carbide. I never claimed to or presumed to know the poeple of Bhopal's feelings towards anything - just questioned your previous query wondering if how they felt about Obama's outrage. None of the links made the connection that I could find, other than the one Indian author.
Why should the rest of the world have any sympathy for us - we bring the majority of this on ourselves. While I deserved the turnabout on the “rats behind” reference - I personally feel the Indian people and Bhopal victims should be concerned about the low payout for the Union Carbide disaster. I don’t see any benefit to the continual comparison between the two - it only seems to fuel the perception of the “fairness” trait of the US that some of the quotes you have linked refer to.
I don’t obviously speak for all Americans - but very few that I know of feel anything is fair as it stands now in the big business run political system we live under in the US. That is the reason why I have no issue with BP paying for it’s mess - which is why this whole discussion took off in the first place. If they don’t pay out too much and can escape intact - British pensions (and yes I understand some American pensions as well - but that isn’t why we got here) will remain intact, and my tax dollars will have to finish the job. And I probably deserve that as I use as much petrol (well maybe not since I have downgraded from my SUV a couple of years ago - but you get the point) as the next ugly American.
I do thank you for the many informative links you have posted (prior to this last post) regarding both the Gulf oil spill and Bhopal. I have benefited greatly, and know a lot more now than I did just a week ago. BTW - the term Comical US Media Reaction is redundant!
Regards,
Dean -
CNN posted an interactive 3D model of the disaster site here.
OT: I'm seeing more and more 3D stuff in the media, have you guys noticed this? This CNN model is just a basic model using the Unity engine, but I'm guessing we are going to see more detailed models in the future.
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with pain inside me, i found this today
YouTube - James Fox on the BP Oil Spill - Part I
[flash=480,385:3h5hvmha]http://www.youtube.com/v/-0fLnRpofPg&hl=es_ES&fs=1[/flash:3h5hvmha]YouTube - Alert * 100% TRUE : OIL RAINS , TOXIC RAINS , POISING GASES .
[flash=480,385:3h5hvmha]http://www.youtube.com/v/yY1eWq6A-5E&hl=es_ES&fs=1[/flash:3h5hvmha]watkins, if you feel this video or comments are not appropriate to your thread, let me know
thank you -
YouTube - Todo el Mundo es un Escenario 1_5 MAX IGAN All the World is a Stage ES Subtitles
[flash=480,385:agl3bnij]http://www.youtube.com/v/7LpWJ8W0pAA&hl=es_ES&fs=1[/flash:agl3bnij]What BP, Haliburton, and other co-conspirators intentionally drilled into was an Asphalt Volcano.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=176310
this view could explain it all
cheers -
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We already have the solution to the BRITISH PETROLEUM oil spill. The other night I watched an old episode of StarTrek. The away team had beamed down to a planet where an oil seepage had surrounded them. Strangely the spill seemed to have an intelligence of its own and seemed hostile in that it followed them everywhere. I didn't finish watching, but it occurred to me that if anyone knows how the away team defeated the oil spill they should post it here so we could forward the solution to BP management. If it requires the use of photon torpedoes or phasers on BP's upper echelon so much the better.
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It's the fourth of july. maybe they should just start the whole ocean on fire and the whole country could go down there for a big 4th of July Weenie Roast.
I am sure there are lots of weenies the folks down there wouldn't mind roastin' . .
BP Execs. . .Tim Geitner. . .Obama. . .
JUS kiddin'!!!
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YouTube - COREXIT is Eating Through Boats in the Gulf!
by o0Levitikuz0o
[flash=480,385:1rox5o9l]http://www.youtube.com/v/4AVyw93sf88[/flash:1rox5o9l]
The dispersant is more dangerous/toxic then the oil itself. I doubt someone controls situation in the Gulf.A comment to the video posted on youtube:
@unknownuser said:
Hey!! The dispersant Corexit is much less toxic than VX nerve gas, hydrocyanic acid, botulism toxin, a direct hit from a lightning bolt while standing in a puddle, being ran over by a train, extended submersion in boiling sulfuric acid, being jettisoned naked into deep space, caged with 50 starving lions, drawing a cartoon of Mohammed, quail hunting with Dick Cheney, listening to a speech by Joe Biden, waiting for Barack to save us or current economic theory being practiced by the government.
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@unknownuser said:
":ogwdz9kn]...I am sure there are lots of weenies the folks down there wouldn't mind roastin' . .
BP Execs. . .Tim Geitner. . .Obama. . .JUS kiddin'!!!
the trouble David_H is that it is THE EIGTTHH OF JULY
and the TOXICS are starting to happen
but at the bottom
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/7/bp_oil_spill_cleanup_workers_getting
we should act now -
i was just jokin'. . ..
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@unknownuser said:
**":i0xvh0im]i was just jokin'. . ..
of course i know David_H nothing to be embarrassed
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thanks. . .I was hanging my head in shame.
Well not really.
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the point for me is how can we act ?
mind you i am from Spain and Madrid takes very far from there
There is a website offering radios superbs for if the electricity fails
i mean is there no way to act ?
do you get the news that tells BP controls absolutely everything in the Coast Shitten ?
and does not allow anybody to film or picture or interview ?
OR THAT SCIENTISTS FROM OUTSHORE are not allowed to intervine ?
I can think, well, they must study the facts and do not tell anything untill they know so to not to frighten the society
but i mean, it frightens me from Madrid
are the North American people not so frightened as to ask on TV POLITICIANS directly?
what is going on ? -
Juan, BP does not control EVERYTHING on the coast, and we are bombarded on the national news everyday with media coverage of the disaster, including on-site reports. Not to mention the print media, which seems to report one more disaster after another (now the oil is UNDER the sand). Given the size of the story and all the interest by the national and international media (even one of our local stations sent two anchors and a film crew down there to do a report), I'm not surprised access has been somewhat restricted, but reports that BP is controling the whole coast, and people aren't "allowed" to talk or take photographs, is a gross exageration.
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thanks Daniel
i did not know that -
@unknownuser said:
Obama administration has told US oil giant Exxon Mobil Corp and another group, believed to be Chevron, that it would not oppose a bid for BP
Now there's a surprise, isn't it!
Kick, kick and kick BP, crush it's share price then grab it at a cut price.
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