All these renderers look so damn good
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I've been trying to figure out what rendering program to get and I'm stymied because they all look good and I'm hoping someone here could point me in the direction of an unbiased review of some/all of the different engines out there.
I've read the posts, been to the websites and have down loaded at least 3 (probably 4-5) trial versions and pretty much without exception they all seem to do what they're designed for very well, at least to my untrained eye. What I'm finding myself stuck on is the vast pricing difference and why? Being a person that understands the concept of 'you get what you pay for', I'm not afraid of throw down some coin for a good product that I'm going to use, however at the same time I don't want to buy a Ferrari when a Chevy will do the trick just dandy.
I can't seem to find any reason why one engine is significantly more than another. When reading the developers literature the $200 engine says that it's supercalifragalistic just like the $800 dollar one. They both seem to have out puts that are off the chart fantastic, they both claim to be super simple to use, fast, produce photo realistic renderings, and provide gobs and gobs of textures, materials and other goodies. I'm sure that there's a reason for the price difference but for the life of me I can't find it.
So does anyone know of a side by side review of some of these engines? A bullet point list of 'does' and 'doesn't'? Has a poll ever been done about which rendering engine is the most used by members of this forum?
Thanks for any help
Chris
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well buy the one that works for you. it seems to me that the prices are kinda arbitrary, and have more to do with how long the programs been around than how much the program does for you. the thing is that it matters more what results YOU get from a particular renderer than what results others get. for example some users can make a lot nicer models with SU (free) than they could with 3DMax $3500. likewise i can make a lot better renders with Twilight ($99) than i could with Maxwell ($899 ??) or VRay ($500~600?). that mean Twilght is worth far more to me than both these renderers put together.
the point is that its YOUR result that counts, not the price.
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Chris, Basically, you get what you pay for. If you are user challenged (like me :-), get one with a simple interface, but rest assured that you will learn to use and love what ever you decide on.
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@xrok1 said:
well buy the one that works for you. it seems to me that the prices are kinda arbitrary, and have more to do with how long the programs been around than how much the program does for you. the thing is that it matters more what results YOU get from a particular renderer than what results others get. for example some users can make a lot nicer models with SU (free) than they could with 3DMax $3500. likewise i can make a lot better renders with Twilight ($99) than i could with Maxwell ($899 ??) or VRay ($500~600?). that mean Twilght is worth far more to me than both these renderers put together.
the point is that its YOUR result that counts, not the price.
xrokl - I hear what you're saying, so long as what you have works well for you, it's worth it. We're in agreement here but let me clarify a bit more (apologies for not being more clear to begin with).
Like I said, I down loaded many trial versions of the rendering software and played around with each. No one piece of software jumped out at me as the one that was best for me, in essence they all worked for me. They all seemed to be fairly straight forward when it came to usability, so in that sense everything was awash, dead even. When it came to the quality of the rendering, well that's hard to say because being trial versions, some wouldn't render to their fullest capabilities. That being said, after looking around here in the gallery, on the websites of the different companies, I'm going to assume (rightfully/wrongfully?) that they all render similarly well, or at least for my current needs.
So this is pretty much the limit of my knowledge of rendering software, but this still begs the question 'why the vast difference in price'. I have to assume (again rightfully/wrongfully) that there is/are reasons for the higher price that extends beyond just name brand, and maybe those reasons are bells and whistles that I could use, or maybe it's something like faster rendering time, technical support, additional add ons, expandability, or what have you.
So not know what all is at least available makes it difficult for me to make an informed decision, so this is why I ask if there is a review, poll, or bullet point comparison of some of the software out there.
Thanks much for you response
Chris
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hi Chris,
did anyone mention yet that it may also be important what kind of renders you will be producing? architectural? interior? exterior? product? how important is nature or lighting? pictures or movies? When it comes to more detailed questions, you will find many strengths and weaknesses with the different render-applications. Some say that today nearly all available apps may produce good quality in the right hands, and of course this is true (but more from the point of view that without artistic knowledge and some skills in photoshop you wont make it far in the CGI anyway;) . For me it also true that I need my work to get done and therefore want a renderer that has features which make it convenient for me to achieve my goals (e.g. just recently someone here asked for a renderer to do landscaping previz, I myself need a good lighting system, especially with interior scenes some renderers can handle that better than others ...and so on)
Maybe you like to have a look at this article in 3Dworld http://www.thethirdfloorinc.com/publish/_assets/417/10/02/tdw126.f.renderers-7a90.pdf
It is not too relevant for us SketchUp users, but it gives an idea how many different features could be important when looking for the right software.
cheers & good luck
alex -
Regarding price variance, I think when a software developer sets a price on their product I think they are considering their target market and who the program is geared toward. Take a program like Vray. When it first came out as an official release back in 2002, it was actually sold as three versions, a free, a basic and an advanced. The basic version was $299 and the advanced version was $799. The advanced version with the higher price included more options for a professional user, such as distributed rendering over multiple computers, the ability to re-use your irradiance map to speed up animation rendering, etc. The higher price reflected the professional consumer who will profit off the use of the software. In that respect, the price for Vray hasn't changed since it's very first version. It also gives the user a lot more controls and settings, which would only really be necessary in a professional workflow.
Now a render engine such as Twilight, their market is specifically Sketchup users as it is a SU plugin. With this in mind, they are trying to appeal to a market that contains hundreds of thousands of Sketchup Free users. I think they understand that by keeping the price low, they will make up their profits in quantity and by appealing to that market base, they will bring in a lot of non-professional users and hobbyists who can't justify paying a pretty penny as a pro user would do, but still want to get quality results with not a lot of settings to adjust.
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Shura & Earth,
Thanks for your input, I guess I have more to think about. That article was great and if it was SU specific it would have been perfect.
I know what it is I'd like shura, and if you're asking me as opposed to just suggesting I think about it, then what it is I want and need it to do is this. I'm an architect, so obviously I need exterior buildings in natural light, but interior is important also. I really have to have both ease of use and stability (this need kills Kerkythea). I've found that so many of these smaller companies have such limited tech support that if you contact them with a problem they just refer you to their user forum and I don't find that unacceptable. I don't need the output to be for anything more then emailing clients ideas and the occasional marketing picture so PIXAR quality is probably overkill for this kid.
In a nut shell, simplicity, stability, support are the most important things I'm looking for. Any Suggestions?
Thanks again
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Something else to take into consideration is whether you will be selling your services as a renderer to clients or if you are just looking to jazz up your own work... and also whether you intend to incorporate other 3D software into your workflow or use Sketchup exclusively.
If your are the primary consumer and Sketchup is your only 3D app then I would base my decision not on quality or price but on how fluid it is to use within Sketchup... life is complicated enough without making it more-so unnecessarily.
If you think you may end up selling your render services at some point then probably best to go with one of the more full-featured pro-level apps (V-ray, Maxwell, Indigo, etc.)
Also worth considering, an app that is stand-alone can be very useful for very large/complex models/scenes that Sketchup cannot easily handle.
Best,
Jason. -
Every day I'm learning something new, recently I started to work in an Architect's office where they use to do very large projects, and I found that those file's projects are very dificult to handle in Sketchup, they use to do their 3d Models in Autocad, so I tryed to make a rendering with SketchUp, and the first problem was that it was very hard to import very large files into SketchUp, then they ask me to find a software to make the renderings, so I used Vue, and that was ok, and I may buy a software for interior renderings that can make renderings from SketchUp, and from 3DS Max, because I use SketchUp for my projects and 3ds Max for their Projects (Those large projects)
In my case, the software i'm sure I'm going to buy is Thea Render, it has plugins for Sketchup and 3ds Max.
I own some of the render engines out there for SketchUp, like IRender, Podium, Twilight, and I have used all of them, for different situations, and different clients.
For me all of them are very good.
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Goodness, more to think about! LOL
Jason - You point about not worrying about quality or price but how fluid it is, is dead freakin' on! I'm not a '3D' guy, I'm not selling my services to others. I want this to 'jazz up' my own work and to use a tool to help clients visualize designs and proposals. At this point I'm planning on using the rendering engine for SU exclusively. I'm looking for new CAD software (i.e. Archicad, Vectorwerks, et al) and I'm not sure what I'm going to end up with.
One thing you emphasized was 'use within Sketchup'. This is something that I'm aware of, but no little about. What's the difference between a render that works within SU as opposed to one that you have to export to? Are their fundamental differences? Is the rule of thumb something like the ones that render from within are easier, cheaper but not as good as the ones that you export too? I've looked for info regarding this but haven't come up with anything.
bravoddb - It sounds like you're saying that there are some serious differences between all the different engines out there. That certain ones do certain things much better than other engines. (i.e. 'Acme Render' does exterior very well but if you want to do small product stuff then 'Render X' is better)
Of those you've worked with is one more 'general use' than others? Maybe does nothing particularly well but does everything marginally well?
Again, thank you for all of your help
Chris
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good evening Chris,
when using a renderer that is a plugin for SU you do not have to export your model for rendering. That makes it easier to get changes on your model done between test-rendering. Can't say too much as I am only using renderers that are integrated in SU. I love all of them and use them depending on what the current project requires. That means you are right: there are serious differences.
The moment I first heard about a renderer for SketchUp, I didn't even download the trial but bought it right in the same minute because I wanted it badly and it was very affordable. From that on I learned a lot about rendering and must say that when it comes to learning a software and spending so many hours/days/nights with it, the pricing is the least important criterion.
If you do not have any render experience yet, you might want to get used to the whole thing by trying out one of the lower priced render-plugins which are also not too complex and therefore have a lower learning curve. My guess is that after one year you know a lot more about what you want from rendering.
I use Podium and Twilight for photorealistic stills, LightUp for walkthroughs and find it very useful to present drafts in a non-photorealistic style, which I create in Piranesi.
Beware, the stuff is addictive
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@unknownuser said:
What's the difference between a render that works within SU as opposed to one that you have to export to? Are their fundamental differences? Is the rule of thumb something like the ones that render from within are easier, cheaper but not as good as the ones that you export too?
Renderer that works within SU is limited to SU. When your scene gets complex enough SU cannot handle it and you must break the scene in parts. Don't know it that's likely happen for you, but it's good to remember. Also SU is limited to 32-bit memory space, so is integrated renderer (or I have not seen a solution for that). Render a reasonable simple scene that produces complex caustics and uses displacement... you simply run out of memory.
Fundamentals in integrated and studio style renderer can be similar (or they even can use the same engine under the hood, like Kerkythea, Twilight and Podium 1.x). It's more a workflow issue.
I know many that do use multiple renderers, one might not suit to all of your needs. It's say test and then test again, look what kind of support you will get, forums, manuals, tutorials and so... High cost will not necessary tell anything about the value you get from a software, like xrokl said. -
Based on what I can see right now I would take a really long hard look at SkIndigo http://www.indigorenderer.com/node/976
Maxwell should have a much better new plugin for Sketchup soon, which is what I'm waiting for. I really like Maxwell Studio for large models or models from different packages... but sometimes you just want to get right to the point and their current plugin is less than spectacular.
If I was new to rendering and only used Sketchup Twilight would be really hard to resist -- great price point, nice features and Sketchup only so integration with Sketchup is always a priority.
Octane Render http://www.refractivesoftware.com is a great example of the type of package I would avoid if Sketchup is my primary app. because of complete lack of Sketchup integration
Best,
Jason. -
check my signature for my vote.
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I've heard very good things regarding Twilight. Unfortunately they don't make a version for OSX
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@unknownuser said:
...Unfortunately they don't make a version for OSX
They do- I mean they are working on it just haven't released it yet.
I know... I know...
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Please forgive me if I say something in favor to a specific render engine, but let me share how I use to work:
For me I use to make the sketch, with sketchup, then I choose a software to render my project, it depends on how much time i have to do it, for my very first Idea, I use to make floor plans and a rendering with Piranesi, then I choose a Photoreallistic rendering software for exteriors and may be another for interiors, Most of the time I choose Vue for exteriors, It has fantastic trees and scenes, and for interiors I use twilight when I have enough time for every render I need to make, like 9 hrs for a single good rendering, and when I don't have much time I do it in IRende or Podium, they are faster than the unbiased software, but those unbiased software are very good, very photo reallistic, but very slow.
I can tell you because I own these software, I can't tell you of those I don't own. You must be aware of the size of your projects, and choose a rendering software that can handle bigger models. Some times must be done outside of SketchUp.
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chris, these are a few rendering applications that I'm aware of, and what are to me their major pro's and cons.
Artlantis - (seperate application) really easy to use. comes with a material library. also, the studio version offers good animation options. reasonable quality, but not physically accurate, and has some quirks with its radiosity.
V-Ray - (plugin) very good quality. physically accurate lighting. option to light with hdri-maps. option for toon-materials. but way more complex to use.
POV-Ray - (seperate application) free. also physically reasonably accurate, but very slow if you want good quality. an exporter was made for SU6, but works with SU7 as well.
Podium - (plugin) rather cheap, very easy to use, but too few controls for my taste.Now there are a lot more around that I haven't tried out myself, this is just what I think about the ones that I have. I must say my personal favourite is V-Ray, but Artlantis is a good second, especially when there are plants involved - because of a library that my boss has bought...
good luck choosing...
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