HELP setting up a SU code editor

[driven]

hi Jim,
thanks for the clear answer
the SLSocket doesn't show up at all on XP [on the same Mac] and I haven't gone through the methods on it yet,

I really need to mod the script to generate the full list automatically, so I can compare with 3 other Macs with different versions of Ruby etc and with and without scripts,

I thought I recognised at least one of TIG's, but there's other at last ones that aren't on the API as well.

I take a look at your list in the morning...

john

[Dan Rathbun]

An old post on SkSocket at over at GG.
http://groups.google.com/group/sketchupruby/browse_frm/thread/0b81977cc5d795ba#

[driven]

cheers Dan,

I found that earlier and followed the links to the test script I ran.

I posted the results because I don't how to interrupt the output, although it did show me a potentially 'protected' name, that's used in a script that just won't run on OSX on my Mac, but will on XP [same mac]

SKSocket doesn't show up under XP....

john

@ Jim, had a look at the charts, very nice

[Dan Rathbun]

@driven said:

@ Jim, had a look at the charts, very nice

@ JIM .. dittos from me. I'd like some that we're left right hierachry, tho.

[Dan Rathbun]

@chrisglasier said:

@driven said:

what does #arity mean??

disappointingly - the number of arguments - but I don't know what the -1's mean on your list.

"For methods written in C, returns -1 if the call takes a variable number of arguments."
http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/html/ref_c_method.html#Method.arity

[Dan Rathbun]

@driven said:

SKSocket doesn't show up under XP....

Nor does:
class Sketchup::Geodesic

I have module Precision, but not the 3 methods your list shows.

I cant find (mix-in) module Smoothable (is this a plugin?)

None of the DC classes or modules are on your list.

The following classes, don't have prototypes defined (BUT SHOULD!):
UI::InputPoint [*no-proto]
UI::Menu [*no-proto]
UI::PickHelper [*no-proto]
UI::Tool [*no-proto]

Sketchup::FrameChangeObserver [*no-proto]

And then the standard extensions:
LanguageHandler ( should be moved to -> UI::LanguageHandler )
SketchupExtension (should be moved to -> Sketchup::Extension)

P.S. - I accidently opened your list in ol' plain Notepad and it of course could not handle the EOLs.
But when I opened it in Notepad++ no problem, and the app automatically switched to UNIX EOLs for that 1 file tab.

[thomthom]

I write my plugins in ASCII - since Ruby 1.8 only deals with ASCII. Despite the data from SU comes in as UTF-8.
I tried with UTF-8 at one point and got errors...

[driven]

@dan rathbun said:

@driven said:

SKSocket doesn't show up under XP....

Nor does:
class Sketchup::Geodesic
only if you don't have Geodesic.rb instaled BEFORE loading suapi.rb

I have module Precision, but not the 3 methods your list shows.
that one may be a Mac thing, I need to automate my process, you'll see why...

I cant find (mix-in) module Smoothable (is this a plugin?)
[balso, only if you don't have Geodesic.rb instaled BEFORE loading suapi.rb[/b]]

None of the DC classes or modules are on your list.
I don't have Pro installed

The following classes, don't have prototypes defined (BUT SHOULD!): why???
UI::InputPoint [*no-proto]
UI::Menu [*no-proto]
UI::PickHelper [*no-proto]
UI::Tool [*no-proto]
Not sure what you mean here, but it may come to me if they suddenly turn up

Sketchup::FrameChangeObserver [*no-proto]
Is this a Pro thing?

And then the standard extensions:
LanguageHandler ( should be moved to -> UI::LanguageHandler )
SketchupExtension (should be moved to -> Sketchup::Extension)
possibly Mac thing, but are you see the pattern emerging?

P.S. - I accidently opened your list in ol' plain Notepad and it of course could not handle the EOLs.
But when I opened it in Notepad++ no problem, and the app automatically switched to UNIX EOLs for that 1 file tab.
all the at last and google rubies are (UTF8),but sometimes other plugins arn't

Basically, it seems suapi.rb could be the basis for a de-bugger,
if it's loaded without any plugins you will get a snapshot of YOUR setup's usable content,
if you than add the atLast/Google 'advanced' rubies
if you than add 'PRO' you will get an 'advanced' 'PRO' snapshot of YOUR 'advanced PRO' setup.

Then, if we all collate our reports, we would have a three stage baseline of what actually is installed on Mac's,PC,Linux,Chrome.....

and this could be used as the library in the editor for targeting ruby's to 'levels of set-up' or at least a 'Basic SetUp' requirement comment on a script...

I know there other factors, but we can test against installed version of Ruby as well as other

this would certainly help de-bugging, wouldn't it?

I've got a folder with a basic set of rubies I found make a difference, and a manual process to go with it, anyone want meto post it?

Not for the faint hearted, but shouldn't do any damage?

john

[Jim]

@dan rathbun said:

@driven said:

@ Jim, had a look at the charts, very nice

@ JIM .. dittos from me. I'd like some that we're left right hierachry, tho.

Thanks, I used Graphviz to make the image. It's easy enough to output a asci .dot file for Graphviz.

I think I have something similar in Freeplane .

[driven]

@dan rathbun said:

Wht re-invent? Ruby has a debugger.Not, a all, I 'm meaning some sort of version control/monitor/indicator, so if I write what I think is a really simple beginners type ruby, with only SU6 on a Mac available for testing, my editor can highlight the fact I've used a Win32 only method that also needs MeshAdditions.rb + Geodesic.rb or wharever... before it will run on my machine

It's part of the stabdard library. It makes more since to get it working woth SU embedded Ruby.

%(#004000)[**I totally agree on that, problem is some Standard things appear not to work on All machines, Before we even get into properly evaluating things like GPU and CPU it would be good to know if something is Never going to work

It could also mean, that if I want to distribute a RadRails Ruby9 experimental plugin that I've concocted on my bespoke setup, I can forewarn others who might want to use it, or supply the extra bits as an instal package**]

[Dan Rathbun]

@driven said:

@dan rathbun said:

Why re-invent? Ruby has a debugger.
Not, a all, I 'm meaning some sort of version control / monitor / indicator, so if I write what I think is a really simple beginners type ruby, with only SU6 on a Mac available for testing, my editor can highlight the fact I've used a Win32 only method that also needs MeshAdditions.rb + Geodesic.rb or wharever... before it will run on my machine.

Oh OK, well then debugger is the wrong term for what you want. And we've discussed something similar before in other threads, Rick Wilson had an experimental approach that was implemented as embedded documentation, that would need to be parsed. I think they were 'leaning' toward a RDoc-like syntax.

Myself, and I think Jim Foltz prefer something that is 'live-Ruby.' Where a ruby script, (or a module distro'd with Sketchup,) tasked with Extension management, can actually ask the plugin / extension about itself.

Right now, if you have ever used the SketchupExtension class, you should realize that it creates a Ruby object (before an extension / script is actually loaded and only loads it if the user has 'checked the box' in the Extensions page of the Preferences dialog. The SketchupExtension class object contains (at present,) only a handful of attributes, but if you compare them to those within a GEM spec ... you should find the the GEM spec has an attribute for almost all those in the SketchupExtension object; plus quite a few more.

I would prefer either adopting the GEM spec format, or as close to it as possible; and revise the SketchupExtension class (rev 2?, which should really be Sketchup::Extension class,) to add extra attributes, stealing those from GEM spec that apply, and adding some specific Sketchup attributes (such as a platform attribute: 'PC','Mac' or 'Both') It should be possible to add attributes to the class, and still be backward compatible, ie, the current SU Extensions dialog will just ignore all the extra attributes.

Looking forward.. a future SU version could 'grey-out' the checkbox if the extension does not support the user's platform, or if the user's installation does not have modules or classes that are listed in the 'dependancies' attribute(s). This could work for 'conflicts', where the checkbox does not become active until conflicting extensions have been unchecked.

So, then.. an editor / IDE could also access this information. If Sketchup is loaded, the IDE could iterate and query the Extensions collection to determine what it needs to know. If SU is not loaded, the IDE could start it's own Ruby instance, and run a script that can build it's own SU Extensions collection.

[MartinRinehart]

@driven said:

I hadn't grasped that your, "hey guys, no need to look under the hood" API was devised to slow peoples own programing knowledge.

I invite you to take a quick look at my table of contents. Chapter 15 covers programming with the Transformation class methods. Chapter 16 covers the "no transformation matrix" programming. 16 also includes a critique of the "no transformation matrix" programming, explaining where it is not enough.

Appendix T covers the matrix in depth for those who want to get under the covers of the Transformation class. Appendix MM explains matrix multiplication.

This is all "devised to slow peoples own programming knowledge"?

[driven]

Martin, cross posting, so I'll respond to you first. As a fan of your 'work', I do NOT think that 'slowing people down' is your intentions, however, I get pissed off when I feel I'm being asked to stay away from something because I'm not 'professional', please read on

Dan, and everyone else following or stumbling in

I should have apoligised in advance for offending people, I'm bound to, it's in my nature.

sorry about my terminology errors, I'm not a coder, scripter, etc..
but, what I'm good at is finding loopholes, backdoors, fast-tracks into systems, workflows, tecnogogies I have NO business even looking into(in some peoples opinion)

I have spent most my working life as a Special (physical) Effects designer attempting to cobble together all sorts of concepts and devices into a singular coherent manageable solutions and teaching others how to do the same. (Course Director-BSc(Hons) Special Effects Design LSBU)[note: course closure attributed to the rising demand for Visual Effects (3D cg)]

This is all I'm trying to do now, I want one 'bespoke' SU ruby that will achieve my particular set of tasks and I can see no reason why my concept shouldn't work on my mac running SU.

After, an initial search I discovered there isn't a Developers pack in the same way there is for Mac, iPhone, Safari, WedKit, etc. or even a program like ControllerMate aimed at SU on any platform.

This, more than anything, surprises me.

What I did find was SCF and an odd international assortment of like-minded (mostly)individuals pursuing a common aim of making SU better for all by sharing and amalgamating resources.

I feel (currently) it is a 'cause' I can be comfortable participating in, adding my unconventional problem solving mentality to the mix.

I'm not particularly good at using SU, or understanding code but I'm improving, and I am happy to take advice follow links, share findings, etc... as are a core group of this forum's users.

Enough 'blog', back ON SUBJECT, I've downloaded, Apanta for PC to run under Parallel's and when looking for a VM instal tutorial I came across this http://bitnami.org/forums/forums/rubystack-jrubystack/topics/howto-windows-rubystack-aptana-radrails-ruby-debug
I'll follow there advice to see what happens, but would appreciate opinions.

john

Back OFF SUBJECT-
I can surf, login, upload and download at 3D ware house on Parallel's XP SU (I don't get a bugsplat till shut-down), so it's not my hardware or ruby version stopping me from signing in and uploading when I try from Mac/SU on the same computer?

[thomthom]

@driven said:

It could also mean, that if I want to distribute a RadRails Ruby9 experimental plugin that I've concocted on my bespoke setup, I can forewarn others who might want to use it, or supply the extra bits as an instal package[/b]

Are you trying to write SU plugins with Ruby on Rail?
(I'm feeling I'm not entirely on track with this thread any more...)

[Dan Rathbun]

@thomthom said:

Are you trying to write SU plugins with Ruby on Rails?

It's only one of John's ideas he's playing with. No harm in playing. Specifically I think he's thinking of it as perhaps a WebDialog/WebApplet platform.

If such a 'plugin' ran from a remote website or network server, I can see that it may have merit.

I have reservations however if Rails were to be used as a local WebDialog platform, as it's a server technology, and each client would need to have a full Ruby install along with RubyGems and Rails. That raises install headaches on the PC side. (Personally, I am nervous having servers run on my client machine, with an always on, broadband internet connection.)

I'd be interested to see if we could get eruby running under SUruby as a WebDialog helper.

[driven]

@thomthom said:

Are you trying to write SU plugins with Ruby on Rail?

Maybe, if i have to,
I'm looking at 'Rails' more as a source of cross-platform 'ruby' tools that may be re-purposed into a 'cross-platform' Sketchup Plugins Tools that cope with 'all' you might find/use not just the 'ruby' (and also for the db, doc handling abilities.)

As Dan points out, why re-invent the wheel. If it can be de-'railed' which 'may' just involve setting the preferences right, then it's a fast route to having a bespoke SU editor.

If you look at this lifted text and re-reference as if aimed at Sketchup, I think you'll agree it would be nice...
%(#008080)[About BitNami

What is BitNami?

The aim of BitNami is to simplify the deployment of web applications, such as wikis or blogs, in order to make them more accessible. There are a lot of high quality open source software packages that aren’t used as much as they could be because getting them up and running can be a complex process. We want to change that!

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Regardless of whether you choose a Native Installer, Virtual Machine Image or Cloud Image, you will be able to have your BitNami-packaged application of choice up and running in just minutes, with no manual configuration required.]
@thomthom said:

(I'm feeling I'm not entirely on track with this thread any more...)

Me as well, we need to get back on rail(s)

john

[driven]

@dan rathbun said:

If such a 'plugin' ran from a remote website or network server, I can see that it may have merit.
I have reservations however if Rails were to be used as a local WebDialog platform,

[Although not using Rails] isn't this what Google do when you install the 'Gears' plugin for o3d Dev or Apple with the iPhone or iPad Dev kits?

@Thomas... The other, diversion on this thread is me trying to clarify the 'Baseline' and while it is touched on in other threads, those seem to be wanting to know for different reasons. i.e end user script management, etc...

I want to run a SetUpSketchUpTest.rb that proves what does and doesn't work, on any given setup, as opposed to second guessing and/or collating historic, disparate threads here and elsewhere.

If packaged as a simple one off 'Platform Tolerant' installation on volunteers machines the information could be fed into an editors library and let you know, as you type, if potential problems are there....

[thomthom]

Ok - I'm getting more back on track now.

[Dan Rathbun]

@driven said:

@dan rathbun said:

Nor does: class Sketchup::Geodesic [show on PC]
only if you don't have Geodesic.rb instaled BEFORE loading suapi.rb

@dan rathbun said:

I cant find (mix-in) module Smoothable (is this a plugin?)
also, only if you don't have Geodesic.rb instaled BEFORE loading suapi.rb
Again, is Geodesic a Google plugin, or a third-party plugin?

@driven said:

@dan rathbun said:

None of the DC classes or modules are on your list.
I don't have Pro installed
It doesn't matter, the DC classes are needed even on Free to interact with Dynamic Components. On the PC, if you turn OFF the DC extension, most of the Attribute Dictionary class methods no longer work.
The reason they are not enumerated / cataloged by su_api.rb is, that the script specifically ONLY targets modules Sketchup, UI and Geom. (I don't know this was by design, or honest omission.)

@driven said:

@dan rathbun said:

The following classes, don't have prototypes defined (BUT SHOULD!):
UI::InputPoint [*no-proto]REVISED**
UI::Menu [*no-proto]REVISED
UI::PickHelper [no-proto]REVISED
UI::Tool [no-proto]
why??? Not sure what you mean here, but it may come to me if they suddenly turn up
REVISED:
InputPoint is defined as:Sketchup::InputPoint
Menu is defined as:Sketchup::Menu
PickHelper is defined as:Sketchup::PickHelper
(..and they ARE on your list.)
The confusion comes because the API doc lists them under "UI Classes".
The Tool class is weird. There is no prototype for coders to subclass, and this is often confusing for newbies. Sketchup treats an object as a tool, when the object is passed as the arg to Model.select_tool.

@driven said:

@dan rathbun said:

*Sketchup::FrameChangeObserver [no-proto]
Is this a Pro thing?
No, it's general. The sample in the Sketchup Blog shows how to use it with Dynamic Components (but it likely can be used for other things.)
The weird thing is, it doesn't really matter what this class is named, when you attach an instance of this observer class, Sketchup only cares that it have a callback method named 'frameChange'.
But not having a 'prototype' of the class (for coders to subclass,) will mean that it will never show up in the API docs. Also, the Blog example, adds in a PC bug workaround. If this workaround was written into a proto-class then any custom subclass would inherit the 'fix'.
The example is named 'scenes.rb' you can download a nice formatted copy at:
http://www.smustard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25#p47
and the Blogpost can be read here:
http://sketchupapi.blogspot.com/2009/07/dynamic-components-that-react-to-scene.html

@driven said:

@dan rathbun said:

And then the standard extensions:
LanguageHandler ( should be moved to -> UI::LanguageHandler )
SketchupExtension (should be moved to -> Sketchup::Extension )
possibly Mac thing, but are you see the pattern emerging?
This occurs because su_api.rb specifically does not look for these classes, so they don't get enumerated / cataloged.

@driven said:

I know there other factors, but we can test against installed version of Ruby as well as other...
Just a reminder that Win32/PC platform does not come with Ruby installed. There are users who would not understand how to install (or more so maintain,) a full Ruby installation. I'm thinking about a scenario where a PC (perhaps even a Mac,) can have a 'normal' full Ruby install in the normal place; AND a second full install under the Sketchup directory that is 'tweaked' specifically for use with Sketchup (and in the future hopefully Layout.)
That way the normal install can stay normal, and be used for things like Rails, without affecting SU. The opposite would be true as well. I've already manually copied a full 1.8.6 install into my SU folder. (This way I can have a 1.9.1 install in the root of my system, that is separate, as Sketchup can't handle v1.9.x at this time.)

[Dan Rathbun]

@driven said:

Basically, it seems suapi.rb could be the basis for a de-bugger..

Why re-invent? Ruby has a debugger. It's part of the standard library. It makes more sense to get it working with SU embedded Ruby.