[Opinion]US healthcare bill
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@idahoj said:
And this differs from the kind of greed we see by having health care managed in the private sector by insurance companies? Those same insurance companies who are owned by stock holders who expect to see PROFIT from their investments?
lol... very true... I guess despite the Wallstreet Shenanigans from not too long ago, i figured that the private company owners would still be more competant than Congress.
@solo said:
I say let the government run it, they may not be perfect but at least they can be held accountable, at least their motives will be our health and not profit.
If the government were truly accountable to the people, i would agree. but how many people actually vote and exercise that control over their government?
[offtopic,kinda]funny thing about he capitalism comments though, shouldn't the government have let AIG et al fail? instead of wasting trillions into that hole? [/offtopic]
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I agree, they should have let AIG fail, there should not be a 'Too big to fail" ransom, it's time Obama addressed these reforms, and I believe this regulation will get partisan support.
@unknownuser said:
If the government were truly accountable to the people, i would agree. but how many people actually vote and exercise that control over their government?
I believe if the government was responsible for our health care then we would have a personal interest in their performance as an investor is financially interested in his invested big business's ability to generate profits.
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@solo said:
I say let the government run it, they may not be perfect but at least they can be held accountable, at least their motives will be our health and not profit.
That's America! You always have to choose between the lesser of two evils!
I just don't understand why everything has to come at the cost of liberty. Why a mandate? I mean what's next, the ban of salt so high blood pressure doesn't put excess burden on the Health Care budget? Oh wait - http://www.examiner.com/x-26942-NY-Restaurant-Examiner~y2010m3d20-A-ban-on-salt-in-New-York-City-restaurants-is-an-assault-on-restaurants
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@unknownuser said:
I just don't understand why everything has to come at the cost of liberty.
Like the patriot act?
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@unknownuser said:
funny thing about he capitalism comments though, shouldn't the government have let AIG et al fail? instead of wasting trillions into that hole?
IMO, under normal circumstances, I'd would have agreed. But the recession, coupled with the huge number of areas in which AIG, Citi, BoA, etc had a fiscal "presence" made it almost impossible to let them fail. GM was the same way. Allowing them to tank would have only worsened the recession by having a "rippling" negative effect on the numerous secondary industries that supply components, and transportation of those components for GM assembly for instance.
For "wasting trillions", personally, I don't think so. The economy is showing good signs of recovering (much earlier than I thought it would) and that money will be recovered eventually. Just today I read the Fed is going to be offering up it's 27% stake in Citi back onto the market this year. The project recoup will be around 8b$ or so.
Your question does make a good a good argument for more Federal oversight...
If the Fed had been watching AIG and the others, Citi, BOA, etc more closely, the situation may have never arisen in the first place. Instead, the "free market, hands off" attitude of the Bush Administration, along with their seemingly total preoccupation with the "War on Terror", allowed these financial giants to make some pretty risky decisions.
Couple that with Americans who thought they should own 4000 sq. ft. homes at ridiculously low sub-primes and you have the recipe for failure... The American Dream gone disastrously wrong...
@unknownuser said:
I just don't understand why everything has to come at the cost of liberty.
Adam, in what ways have your liberties been compromised?
Cheers.
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@solo said:
@unknownuser said:
I just don't understand why everything has to come at the cost of liberty.
Like the patriot act?
Solo
Just what part of the patriot Act is not in the RICO Act? Seems to me if it is good enough for criminals, it should be good enough for terrorist.
Ken
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LOL, there is a major difference between them, Firstly one is for racketeering and involves local enforcement and warrants before measures like wire tapping, searches and incarceration, with a maximum of 72 hours before either charging or releasing.
The other is the Patriot act, which strips you of all rights on a just suspicion. Taking jurisdiction above all local and state laws, indefinite holding without charge, unprovoked search and seizures, cross the board surveillance.
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Back to the health care bill, let me share this with you...
A couple of weeks ago, I went to an ER in California for a sudden onset of dizziness. I was in the ER for about 6 hours, almost totally under the watch and care of the ER nursing staff. It wasn't a busy ER and while I was there, only one other person was admitted.
They took blood, put a heart monitor on me, and pretty much just checked on me periodically. The physician on duty spend a total of maybe 5 minutes with me and informed me I had a viral infection in my inner ear after the blood workup was done.
I didn't even get a prescription for an antibiotic to fight the infection.
The bill: $11,900. The physicians bill, separate from the ER: $850.00
With this kind of "robbery" how can anything be worse?
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@unknownuser said:
This is why i have to agree and hope that this attempt will at the least get us started in the right direction. I don't necessarily believe in all that is included - but something has to change.
That's pretty much how I feel as well. I don't think we'll get a "balanced" version of the law without bi-partisan involvement. That's why our government was setup the way it is...But, until both parties can put aside all this bickering and foolishness (read the any of the news feeds any day about the latest political fiascoes) I don't see it happening. "Party member" has become more important it seems than "citizen"...
People need to quit blaming President Obama for everything (he didn't write the health care law but some people seem to think he's entirely to blame for it) and start re-educating themselves as to how our government really works. It's a lot more resilient than folks think.
Really, we survived 8 years of Bush and Cheney didn't we?
Cheers.
[EDIT] I've been reading a number of news articles concerning the Health Care bill. It seems to me that now that it's been enacted into law, there has been a drop in the vitriol and nay-saying. People may be starting to understand that it's a framework to be built on and modified, not a "do all, be all" solution.
There's hope for us yet...
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@idahoj said:
With this kind of "robbery" how can anything be worse?
This is why i have to agree and hope that this attempt will at the least get us started in the right direction. I don't necessarily believe in all that is included - but something has to change. I am a former republican that is so pissed off at the party for playing the kid on the block that is taking his ball and going home since he didn't get his own way. Just what I want my tax dollars to subsidize - countless politicians that aren't going to do any governig from now on, but rather focus on the next election - and then the next election. Makes me so mad I wanna
! As long as there is no serious debate about what is actually broken and how to fix it!Allow me a brief example.....My wife recently went for routine exams, including a mammogram. Pretty routine stuff and thankfully everything is fine, but for a while we were concerned. When she had the first exam - it was mis-read by a shall we say "less experienced" radiological staff reviewing the results. The images presented what was mistakenly identified as "spots" that required a second more thorough exam, and a sonogram as well. This had us on edge for the week till we got back in for the test. When she is there - a much more qualified doctor sees her to let her know everything is fine - they just had to do the additional test because of the flagging that the originally reported "spots" cause when the insurers, etc. see the report. He also explained that the first reading is a common mistake and that it could have been identified at the time for what it is - the result of the level of compression caused when larger breasted women get the exam.
He might have recommended additional tests anyways - but he assured it was something that he has seen many times, and that the additional tests confirmed.So - no $11,000 bill, but what is coming through is (for the most part) of course not covered by insurance the second time around since she already had her "covered" exam for the year. That on top of being billed by 4 different entities now (hospital, radiology group, doctor-1, doctor-2) with none of the bills seeming to jive with the other billings..................
It is broken badly and needs to be fixed!!!!
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