Thea Render is about to be launched..(edit available now)
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@frederik said:
@richard said:
Be mindful it ain't anywhere as easy to get a grip with!!
Que...???
Would you mind elaborating a bit more on this, Richard...?
From what I've seen on the Thea Forum, users find the UI (in particular the Material Editor) really easy and intuitive...
Mate I'm just responding to red's point that he has maxwell! Although the response to Thea is good though for me (I'm not a manual reader) so finding the UI no where near as easy to use as MR studio.
Albiet Thea has some amazing features, lighting setup for points and spots is BRILLIANT!!!!! The general workflow is unfortunately very clicky, the material editor has some great points though at the same clicky again. Hiding stuff in drop downs is for me not ideal.
I have to be honest I probably got a bit disappointed on first trial and still riding on that - for some reason get pig headed about reading manuals, I normally give up at that point and deem a workflow unintuitive. I understand a lot of tool tips are missing and realise this will ease things a great deal.
One thing I would love to see is the option when opening studio is a button that straight up says Unbiased / Biased / Hybrid mode - if selecting Unbiased about 60% of variables disappear.
I guess too it's hard when your spoilt with simplicity!!
Having to adapt to a seeingly more complex workflow for the want of some VERY creditable enhancements is just something I might have to get my head around! As I said i have probably just felt some disappointment that some things seem to have been made overly more difficult than possible!
Though will still stand by my point to Red that maxwell's workflow is remarkably much easier so beware of that!! And possibly simply by the way everything is on show and one doesn't need to hunt!!
Rant Rant Rant!!
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Thanks for taking your time to elaborate on your first post...
Much appreciated, mate...
I haven't played with Maxwell for some years, but back when I did, I gave up because I found it far to complicated... (besides, my focus was on other render apps.)...
@richard said:
...the material editor has some great points though at the same clicky again.
I won't and can't deny that there are some "clicky-clicky" elements in Thea UI, but I'm also quite certain that Giannis and the team will find new and more intuitive ways to avoid these and many of these will thereby be illiminated over time...
@richard said:
I have to be honest I probably got a bit disappointed on first trial and still riding on that...
I appreciate your honesty...
However, Please remember that Thea Render is in first open beta stage...@richard said:
I guess too it's hard when your spoilt with simplicity!!
I agree 100% with you here...
Moreover, when you're used to a certain workflow it can be difficult to adapt another UI (I.e. if you're used to work with Adobe's various apps. it's difficult to adapt Corel's apps., although they do the same and have many equal functions)...@richard said:
Though will still stand by my point to Red that maxwell's workflow is remarkably much easier so beware of that!!
I've taken your point further and I know that Giannis and the team will listen to your comments and work on new ideas to make things easier...
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Richard
Good posts and I agree with your comments.
Very strong and fast render engine.
Very quick export from SU thanks to Tomasz.
Interface seems very clunky just like KT and no user defined keystrokes to help the workflow.
Lots of power but not a lot of fun to edit and use.
Very good value for the experienced user.
I you really need it then get ready to go back to school and study hard.
Thea is not a point and shoot application.
Just a beta however so it is fair to check it out again when it is more polished and fixes are in place.dtr
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Mate I was starting to feel I was one of the only who felt that!!
I agree that as in beta things may change, I do worry slightly that the interface may have been designed to build on that of kerthy (haven't seen) and may then be somewhat branded to stay the same!
I have to example Bonzai here where although the zbrush user base may find it easy and familiar, rarely would an outsider find it user friendly. Where they had an opportunity to catch a larger audience (a large SU audience maybe) they have surely have missed the mark! I remember on a PPB thread regarding Bonzai one of the developers tapped in and despite EVERY forum post suggested that the interface was far from intuitive he stood strong and defended their choice!
Can the same be the future of Thea? Right now is the time to make change - before final release I feel, not that change needs to take place sure, but trust that a certain behaviours are norm in forums that are linked to a software. People tend to shy from being critical and I'd suggest for true crit developers need to look at discussions in other forums to get the picture. I have to be honest that part of me would never post this to the Thea forums!!
Probably typical of beta's I'm involved with from time to time, a feature request may be made, then you get replies on workarounds - I don't want workarounds I want the bloody feature! Classic case in the SU beta's I've been requesting for years now the option in the material editor to have a user option to enable a texture to be non scaling ie: when you stretch say a grouped cube painted with brick, the brick size is maintained yet simply tiles with the stretch. Man did I get hammered for the suggestion by other users suggesting NO we want textures to scale with the object!!! Man all I want is the option and for what I thought was a valid and obvious reason!!
This could also be compared to Kerthy / Twilight - Kerthy is free! Twilight (well almost free) user pays, why would someone pay for an app when the same is avaiable freely? They aren't the same!! UI makes all the difference!
As Frederik suggest it can be difficult to switch apps, sure! I know myself and as suggested by a few posts on the PPB from other experience renderers, these days I'd a majority have the same aptitude to open a software without a manual and start production with one or two hours, I've spent at least double that with Thea and am still unable to find the darn button that opens the texture editor so I can see the effects of my tone mapping changes - what the??
All said I do have high hopes for the future of Thea and if only to see the friendly developers prosper for their efforts, their involvement is unsurpassed and reward is rightful! I just hope they can see the valid points of crit amongst the forest of praise!
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Richard I think you have some valid points about thea.
I'm an older bridge engineer and the interface is a little daunting for me. I doubt any new user of rendering packages could just jump in and produce something. (It took me about 3 months to get some decent stuff out of kerkythea. Which I now like very much)
So here are my downsides to thea.
- steep learning curve for the UI. Not something you find in a typically software package and difficult for a non rendering person to pick up. (I don't even know what a proxy is?) I often feel intimidated on this site in regards to rendering systems and this UI didn't help. I don't need or want big push me buttons but I don't need to fly the shuttle either.
- beta software. It is hard to work with the software when there are few material libraries, lights, etc
Upsides:
- Price, price, price. It seems to be the cheapest product on the market with what may be the most sophisticated rendering engine.
- Involved owners. I can't believe I received an email response from the owner.
- Loyal staff and community. Great people on the forums.
4)Technical. I am frankly amazed by the level of science involved in the program. I'm not worthy
Finally, I am probably going to buy thea based on points 1 and 2 above. I can't stress how rare it is to hear from an owner who loves their product.
I can learn the interface but I would have liked something that takes less time than actually drawing the model. I think some presets would be great where you could import a model and select "outside 5 pm" to get some quick stuff and then when you have time dive in the technology pool.
And finally, I wish I was swimming in Australia....
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Mate the developers involvement in every thread is something that went straight to my heart, they deserve every success with this product if only for that effort!!!
I absolutely can guarantee you that only in the very rare circumstance and generally NEVER with something as involved as the technical apsects of such a system would you get that level of response!
As for the swimming - mate you obviously don't keep up with the growing number of shark attacks here, funny as a young bloke (now likely about your vintage) I would happily surf for hours in a spot next to a deep channel where trawlers would float by throwing off the dregs of their mornings catch. These days I'm so nancy if a bit of sea weed brushes my leg I'm walking on water out of there!!
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@tallbridgeguy said:
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I can learn the interface but I would have liked something that takes less time than actually drawing the model. I think some presets would be great where you could import a model and select "outside 5 pm" to get some quick stuff and then when you have time dive in the technology pool.And finally, I wish I was swimming in Australia....
It's a bit hard to talk about features that are not completed yet. Even I could say that Thea development, as a commercial software, has been fairly open for those that been interested about it - we really are studying different options for workspace presets, user preferences and so... In my opinion, in Thea development, the highest priority has been in solid rendering cores and how engines use the same materials and lights. When the hard core was solid for production, it was time for the public beta - feature wise it might been a bit early, but also it do give users a greater change to affect on the development. The roadmap of Thea Render for next releases is released (download pdf).
Australia sounds great... Winter been far too long here.
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WOW!!!
Mate you really have set not just the industry bar high there but that of your own!!
My god in your neck of the woods it hasn't got over 0 deg all day? No way!
So when there is news on global warming surely you all sit there rubbing hands - "Bring it on!".
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Hi tallbridgeguy,
Just had to say that I loved this:
@unknownuser said:I don't need or want big push me buttons but I don't need to fly the shuttle either
That is probably the best description of how I would like the UI on all software to be.
There should be a law that this quote should be fixed to the top of the display monitor of every software developer.Regards
Albion Man -
Maybe we can help Giannis by posting here
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@jenujacob said:
Maybe we can help Giannis by posting here
Not just maybe...
Please submit your ideas to improve the workflow... -
Frederik
OK a quick shortlist for the UI only.
#1 is user defined keystrokes.
Almost every well configured program has this option.
UI
2-Very dark and hard to read/see and while helped by selecting the Maya option this was just a desperation try and why "Maya" to select.?
Why not a "skin" option for interface color scheme or at least a (white/black) type screen option.
3-Icon bars need to be larger or re-sizable to be quickly usable and understandable.
4-Text for selected icon bar should be at the selector pointer not in an unrelated screen place (center/left ?)
5-Scene/camera should upload to screen with a simple double click.
6-[Select Window/More settings] to get a basic fcn like textures should be part of the default setup not in a buried menu selection.
Also show/hide for textures/materials/ etc menus please.
7-Easy navigation is KEY and having to access multiple selections from the Icon bar is a real pain.
Most applications use the mouse with Alt/Ctl/Shift options by simply clicking on the screen.
(a keystroke option for select would be an easy fix but user defined)
8-Rt click contextual menus for selected options/fcns are a gotta have for a more intuitive workflow.
9-On screen sun selection and move should prevent entity selection when invoked and be much more readable to boot.
10-Keystrokes again.dtr
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Thanks, dtr...
Much appreciated...
I've posted your input in the Thea Forum -
Hi all. Glad to read that Thea's causing so much agitation! There is some sort of saying that sais something like "it's no matter if it's good or bad, we just need people to be talking about us". Well, in this particular case, I believe good words are a lot more than "bad" words about Thea. About all suggestions posted here I think Thea's team will be delighted about having so much comments and suggestions. As a closed beta tester of the application (yes I am one of the lucky ones
) I may say that what impressed me most is having the main developer asking our questions and doubts in a few hours, sometimes minutes. That proved something - that finally people are understanding that having a community helping them with the development will actually make the applications better suited to the real needs. I just wished 20% of the companies out there were like Thea's team.
Well, now that the beta is open, I suggest you all keep trying. And Thea's made some huge leaps with testers opinions, so I believe it will continue that way, so keep on suggesting improvements.
Overall, at this point, I sincerely say that Thea has impressed me much (I was a Kerkythea fan previously, and I have also worked with vray, mentalray, indigo and maxwell). The features it has today (and will have) and - omg the introductory price (which I suggest you take a good look at) - just made it a must-have for anyone (fanatic like me) for communicating architecture and spaces.
Sorry for the long boring text, but these are all sincere words. Be well all, and see you soon. -
Well.. reading some of the previous comments I have to say that I'm not a "renderguy" but like to stay updated and play around with it from time to time!
I've bought Thea Render because I found the UI and workflow nice and easy, It didn't take me long to make nice results, but of cause I'm not used to other renders. (Ok.. I have twilight two)
The texture editor is well hidden, and som shortcuts would be nice, but I bought the software because I can use it now and that it has a promising future where many of the small "beta-lacks" will be eliminated by the very involved developers. Also the announced roadmap told me that this is a software to rely on!
Maybe I could get on the Thea payroll
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Frederik
You are most welcome.
dtr
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Thea is desperately in need of a couple simple video tutorials that show you how to open a model in Thea and render it.
I go to File / Open and select an OBJ file of a simple workbench and, well, I don't really know what happens. I don't seem to get anything in the viewport and I don't know what to do next.
I guess I'll have to read the manual which is hardly too bitter a pill to swallow but a couple videos covering the basics wouldn't hurt at this stage of the software. -
Thanks Albion Man! I appreciate the comments.
On videos, I am teaching a class in structural analysis at the local university and I have been using camstudio to make some decent "help" videos. The students seem to like them and they are used to seeing "youtube" everywhere they go...
I think videos would be a great solution.
TBG
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I can assure you that video tutorials are in preparation...
Primary reason why we haven't made any video tutorials at this point is simply caused by the fact that the Thea UI isn't completely finished...Once we're closer to releasing the first version, please be assured that many video tutorials will become available...
@arail1: Why do you want to use OBJ files...??
I assume that you have SketchUp, so why don't you use the SU2TH plugin...??I apologize on beforehand... It is not my intention to sound annoyed and also not my intention to offend anyone here, but... Trying to excuse that some users do not want to read a manual is utterly ridiculous...
If you want to learn how to use any application, it is a necessity to read a very simple manual or a couple of tutorials...
I don't know anybody using i.e. Adobe PhotoShop, who haven't read through some simple manuals or tutorials to get some basic knowledge...
Sorry guys, I just don't get the rant - especially not since Thea is only in first open beta stage...
I feel that the Thea team and in particular the developer is VERY open to criticism (constructive) and is also very open to new ideas that obviously will make the workflow easier...
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Frederik -
I understand the impetus for your post but I think it's a misunderstanding.
I wanted to try to use OBJ files because I'm comparing VRay and Thea for a possible purchase. The problem I have with VRay is that it's locked to SketchUp but I want to be able to use 2 or 3 modeling programs. I'm not quite clear about whether Thea has the same limitation or not, the manual didn't help out there.
Manuals vs video tutorials -
Most software is designed and marketed by extremely advanced computer users. And the loudest voices on the forums driving the development of the software tend to be also from very advanced users. The problem with this is that very often these same people are not particularly good teachers. The ability to present material in a way that a novice can understand, or to even remember what questions they had when they were novices is actually quite rare. Thus the poor quality of most training material.
I skimmed through the manual and it's very detailed but it didn't help me at all to get started. I still contend that a couple simple, basic tutorials that do not go into depth, do not go into complex technical detail, do not explain ad nauseum every panel and widget on the screen, but instead take an object or a scene and explain step by step how to get it into Thea, how to change a couple of materials, how to add or remove a texture will be more useful for novices than the manual in it's present state.
This was not meant to be a criticism - just a suggestion going forward.
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