Spinoza's God
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Hi Guys,
Trying to figure out 'What's it all about?' is a subject that I continue to investigate on an ongoing basis.
Currently the RC Church here in Ireland is facing newspaper headlines (Irish Times 29-11-09), 'CHURCH WITH A ROTTEN CORE'. This is due to the claimed criminal cover-ups of the RC Church over the past 50 years+ by Joseph Ratzinger (now current pope) down to local bishops here in Ireland. Its a sad and sick state of affairs and I really feel sorry for some church going relivitves and friends as their 'faith' has been rocked. That's enough about the RC Church from me, as I believed it to be nothing more that an 'Insurance Company' when I was 14!
What I want to mention are Baruch Spinoza's conclusions. I am currently reading about these and the more I read the more they make perfect sense to me even though they were conceived and written in the 17th century.
BTW, all of Spinoza's works were listed on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum (List of Prohibited Books) by the Roman Catholic Church .... more reason to read them!
For anyone that is interested, here is a good link to get started,
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/Mike
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One of a long line, Mike. Another is Giordano Bruno, who was tortured to death by the Church for having the temerity to suggest that stars were other suns and probably had other planets orbiting them. This whipped the hierarchy into a lather over questions like “Would there be Popes on these other worlds…and if so, who would be the Capo di tutti Papi?” Cushy jobs at risk…so they solved the problem by setting fire to him. Even now, the Church is still claiming that it was a regrettable incident but done for the public good. Nothing changes.
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In 1929, the editor from the New York Times asked Albert Einstein if he believed in God, upon which Einstein answered, "I believe in Spinoza's God"
I have read and studied some Spinoza a few years ago, I also find a lot of personal connection with his stand on religion. I didn't know that his writings were on blacklist by the RC Church, although I can understand why they would be weary of their followers identifying with the notions of Spinoza. Widely regarded as an atheist (although I disagree), Spinoza brought a rational philosophy to the question of God, Nature and Ethics and abandoned the contention that the bible is more than a literary work. Spinoza's definition of the metaphysical universe and nature is used to deconstruct the doctrine of religious experience to prove God exists, not as a deity with capricious emotions and a thirst for justice, but rather as the underlying current that exists with Nature and natural law. This obviously pissed off the Judeo church of the day and he was excommunicated.
Still, although I connect to his views, I admire Spinoza for his balls. It took guts to go against the grain.
Mike, have you ever had a chance to watch any of the Beyond Belief sessions from 2006? http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/beyond-belief-science-religion-reason-and-survival
If you go to Session 5, about midway through, Professor Steven Nadler does his lecture on Spinoza's philosophy and view of God. It's a very good series, I would recommend anyone to spend some time watching through the many hours of lecture. -
@unknownuser said:
If you go to Session 5, about midway through, Professor Steven Nadler does his lecture on Spinoza's philosophy and view of God. It's a very good series, I would recommend anyone to spend some time watching through the many hours of lecture.
starts at 47 min. very interesting. thanks for the link.
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Thanks Adam. I will most definately listen to Prof. Steven Nadler on Spinoza.
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Wow thanks again Adam. Some great thinkers and thoughts there. I have listened to quite a lot of the ideas and they definitely reinforce what I was inclined towards believing but was not able to articulate and piece together.
I will for sure listen to the total seminar, bit by bit, as I think it will offer a well rounded overview of this hypothesis even though it will probably raise more questions than it addresses. Still, that's the way it should be in order to progress and learn more.
I am also very curious now about druidism as this 'religion' is possibly in my genes. It also appears to be very much related to Nature!
BTW, I also enjoyed Steven Nadler's opening joke about the priest, vicar and rabbi, very funny. I even enjoyed the expressions on some of the audience's faces more so.
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Anyone see the resemblance between Spinoza and Jerry Seinfeld?
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Now that you mention it! I wonder what Jerry's take is on things
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Ah Bruce, chuck away that 10 foot pole. The only good 'debates' are those that involve sex, politics and regilion
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@mike lucey said:
Ah Bruce, chuck away that 10 foot pole. The only good 'debates' are those that involve sex, politics and regilion
As the saying goes:" Regilion is the opinium of the matchless..." [- or something like that]
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@unknownuser said:
@unknownuser said:
The only good 'debates' are those that involve sex, politics and regilion
Yes I know Mike but I don't have the energy for this one...maybe after a nap.
Well Bruce! Are you over the nap? Let's hear what you have to say. We won't burn you like the unfortunate guy that Alan mentioned.
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speaking of religion, one the most interesting books i read recently is God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, by christopher hitchens. he mentions spinoza a lot in that book. from the same author, there is The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever, a collection of texts on religion by authors from several times and places, including spinoza.
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Thanks for the mentions Edson. This is a subject that is fascinating me over the past couple of years. Don't know why, but maybe its the fact that the big 60 is looming! When we are young, death is the last thing on our minds but as one gets older it tends to focus us on the matter. Geeeees, sorry if I'm sounding morbid, its not intended.
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i agree: the subject is fascinating. one inherits religion from one's parents and it seems to be a natural thing just to follow what they did.
but is that what we really believe in and wish to do? reading other people's opinions makes one think and helps us in making up one's mind about this and other subjects.
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I think Spinoza would have loved Object Oriented programming - we are all sub-classed from God.
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@chrisjk said:
I think Spinoza would have loved Object Oriented programming - we are all sub-classed from God.
That was the idea of my namesake, St Anselm of Canterbury
Anssi
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