United Kingdom: Basket Case
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Hi remus,
I asked for other views on this issue and you have provided me with your perspective on this. Thanks.
Don't know if it explains why millions will still go out and vote for more of the same?
I would be interested to hear any other explantions,
Regards
Mr S -
Easy Remus...Telegraph has not finished yet. The Telegraph has decided to run this in trickle so before you take position how good and brave the rest are just wait a bit longer. I personally do not believe there will be more than handfull who did not try to milk the system.
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This is the Jon Stewart clip on it. Its most excellent!
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=228030&title=Scamalot
Sorry, having a hard time embedding it....
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200 down, 450 to go ... I would not place a bet on how many of the remaining 450 are going to prove to be innocent.
Anyway - I'm going to vote, but I will not be voting for anyone in the main parties. seems to me there are only 4 ways to register a protest:
- Don't vote, but this is futile and the politicians choose to see this as apathy rather than a protest.
- Spoil the voting paper, but this is futile as politicians choose to see this as vandalism.
- Vote for a minority candidate. The only vote that counts if you see what I mean.
- Stand for election yourself. Oh, come on! Who has time for that!
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There is a novel, and highly appropriate way to register a protest. An architectural design competition that is open to anyone.
Download the brief here: http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/Journals/1/Files/2009/6/4/Submission%20Pack.pdf
Additional information here: http://commonofhouses.blogspot.com/
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Talk about politicians. Here they don't even have to support their "expenses" with claims and bills. They just "get" that money. And despite it's been in the midst of scandals for years now, this system is the only thing different parties seem to agree on.
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@mr s said:
Hi remus,
I asked for other views on this issue and you have provided me with your perspective on this. Thanks.
Don't know if it explains why millions will still go out and vote for more of the same?
I would be interested to hear any other explantions,
Regards
Mr SMr S
I have lived most of my life in the Chicago area which as you may know is a place of great extreems - good architecture, food theater, music (CSO is great), and also politically, Illinois has been home to Presidents Grant, Lincoln, Regan and Obama and also is a state with one of if not the largest number of governors who left office to serve a jail term - one currently serving time and another - Blaggo - waiting his turn, although he has the arrogance to think he did nothing wrong. That attitude of our recently deposed governor is part of the problem. Corruption is so deeply engrained, it doesn't seem "Wrong" it is just the way thing "Are".
Good, thoughfull, intellegent people are repelled by the taint of politics so the void is filled with creeps. People vote the way they are told to vote by spin masters of the creeps. Many vote to preserve their personal status que - fear loss of jobs, favors etc. Many do not vote because they have lost sight of the power of an individual vote. Most of the "machine" political systems hope for a low turn out on election day because they know they are getting their supporters out - the rest they HOPE stay home.
A few years ago my wife ran for a county office in our corner of Indiana (our County shares a border and ideology with Chicago). The office was traditionally a stepping stone for emerging youth of party in power and was always unchallenged. My dear spouse decided it was time to stand up especially since most of the candidates in the primary were known to be the worst kind of hacks. As in Chicago and Cook County, the winner of the primary election is the winner of the election. We gave a good fight! But lost. However my wife had the third largest number of votes in the County for our party. It wasn't enough since we were outnumbered, but she could not have gotten those numbers without crossovers. People ARE looking for change but are disheartened by the odds. We were both burnt out by the campaign - it is hard to imagine the uphill battle of fighting an entrenched system-machine, especially if your own party does not give its full support. We were both so pissed off by that lack of support it will take some time to restore the energy for either of us to consider running for anything. What hurt even worse than losing, after the election and the numbers came in, the party chairman lauded my wife as his "shining star" - same jerk that wouldn't give us the time of day during the campaign.
Sorry for the rant - this touched a nerve. Apparently the worldwide political situation is nothing new - to the UK or the Colonies and not unique to this time either. Human nature. Lots of inertia to overcome but it can be overcome.
I could go on, but will now count to ten.
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for that interesting insight.
I assume that because of the lack of support from your party that this venture actually left you out of pocket?
Members of the established parties always manage to come out of the process making a handsome personal profit. Perhaps thats were you went wrong.I am not completely familar with the Americian system of politics.
Did your spouse stand under the banner of the Republicans or Democrats?
Was she an independent or representing a smaller party?If she was representing anything other than the established parties what chance of success is there?
In the UK, millions seem to vote in much the same way they follow sport.
"I've always voted Labour/supported Manchester United" and always will" is the type of comment you will often hear.
Since children they have voted for the Red (Labour) coloured party and supported the local "Red" (Manchester United) team.
The same applies to the "Blue" type of people.
No rational thought seems to come in to it.The other type of voting pattern springs from the view that the Red (Labour) party represents the average working man. The Blue (Conservatives) tend to support those who think they aren't working class.
A view thats outdated by about 50 years.
Bizarre!Regards
Mr S -
@mr s said:
Hi Jim,
Thanks for that interesting insight.
I assume that because of the lack of support from your party that this venture actually left you out of pocket?
OH YES. BILL BOARDS, YARD SIGNS, MAILING AND OTHER PRINTINGS - AND WE RAN A MODEST CAMPAIGN
Members of the established parties always manage to come out of the process making a handsome personal profit. Perhaps thats were you went wrong. WE BOTH WANTED TO STAY OUT OF JAIL!!!I am not completely familar with the Americian system of politics.
Did your spouse stand under the banner of the Republicans or Democrats?
REPUBLICAN
Was she an independent or representing a smaller party?If she was representing anything other than the established parties what chance of success is there? IN THE 1960'S I WAS LIVING IN CHICAGO UNDER THE REIGN OF THE "REAL" MAYOR DALEY - THE CURRENT MAYORS DAD, AND THAT WAS SERIOUS MACHINE POLITICS. THERE WAS A VERY SUCESSFUL INDEPENDANT MOVEMENT IN THE CITY COUNCIL. FOUR INDEPENDANTS GOT ELECTED AND MADE QUITE A DIFFERENCE. I WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH ONE OF THEM AND HELPED IN SEVERAL CAMPAIGNS TO GET OTHER INDEPENDANTS ELECTED IN THE CITY COUNCIL AND IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE. WE REALLY MADE A DIFFERENCE. ONE OF MY PROUDER MEMORIES. BY THE WAY, BACK THEN THERE WAS ONE REPUBLICAN OUT OF 50 ALDERMAN. SAME THING TODAY, 41st WARD ALDERMAN IS THE ONLY "R". THE R'S DON'T EVEN SEEM TO BOTHER. THEY WERE NEVER SUPPORTIVE OF THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATES AND REALLY MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY OF MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE LATE 1960'S. WE FOUND THE SAME LACK OF SUPPORT IN MY WIFE'S RUN, BUT THEY WERE THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS AND AS INDEPENDANTS IN OUR COUNTY WE WOULD HAVE A REAL PROBLEM GETTING ON THE BALLOT
In the UK, millions seem to vote in much the same way they follow sport.
"I've always voted Labour/supported Manchester United" and always will" is the type of comment you will often hear.
Since children they have voted for the Red (Labour) coloured party and supported the local "Red" (Manchester United) team.
The same applies to the "Blue" type of people.
No rational thought seems to come in to it.SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE PEOPLE OVER HERE, JUST SUBSTITUTE THE WORDS DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN. COME TO THINK OF IT, THE NEWS PEOPLE ARE NOW DIVIDING US BY RED STATES AND BLUE STATES FOR "R" AND "D"
The other type of voting pattern springs from the view that the Red (Labour) party represents the average working man. The Blue (Conservatives) tend to support those who think they aren't working class.
A view thats outdated by about 50 years. SEEM TO BE A BIRTH RIGHT - OR BIRTH DEFECT - TO LIVE AN DIE IN THE FAMILY PARTYBizarre! I AGREE
Regards
Mr S -
@unknownuser said:
The other type of voting pattern springs from the view that the Red (Labour) party represents the average working man. The Blue (Conservatives) tend to support those who think they aren't working class.
IMHO: The problem is that now the labour party in the UK considers anybody that has a career and can pay for their own existence as middle class as these people are more likely to display independant thought, not being solely reliant on the state and so are less likely to vote labour. The labour party deems people that don't want to work as "working class".
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