2012
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You know, Cornel, there are many reading this thread that would call themselves Christians. They are good people, living good lives. They treat their faith as a private concern and do their best to accommodate the views of others…sometimes even if those views or beliefs are not quite as benevolent as their own. They probably were half tempted to chime in on the side of the Good Book, but your blinkered and dogmatic approach makes that virtually impossible. Frankly, you’re the kind of adherent that gives Christianity a bad name. Even the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury…between them representing the majority of Christians…have no problem at all with evolution and Darwinism.
This was a discussion about a rather over-the-top movie. It was you that dragged it into a religious fist fight…yet again…with your incessant Bible quotations on page 3.
It would seem that you don’t even belong to any recognised branch of the church but have merely read the Bible and drawn your own conclusions. I’m happy that you have found fulfilment, but please stop trying to ram those conclusions down our throats at every conceivable opportunity…however inappropriate.If English really is your 5th language and you have trouble communicating clearly, please do us all a favour and go and proselytise somewhere else in your native tongue. You’re spreading way too much bad karma….which totally defeats any message you are trying to get across.
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Pete, Alan and affected others,
I’m sorry for not ‘eloquent ‘discussions!Behold a strange statistic, (instead of a “dogmatic response”):
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…Why?! Because they have an erroneos ethic: 'God doesn’t exist and men is the result of evolution: w/ altruism, advanced conscience, diligent, etc.'
This is only a postulate, because, in reality, their ethic is this:
'If God doesn’t exist I’m respecting myself, I’m not willing to be busy and to help others, I’m looking only for my advantages, etc.'In a similar maner Mayan people had a postulate that volatilized their entire advanced civilization!
Beware of devolution, guys!Truly I was yours: Cornel
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@unknownuser said:
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…
Why?! Because they have an erroneos ethic: “God doesn’t exist and men is the result of evolution: w/ altruism, advanced conscience, diligent, etc.”
This is only a postulate, because, in reality, their ethic is this:
“If God doesn’t exist I’m respecting myself, I’m not willing to be busy and to help others, I’m looking only for my advantages.Seems to me you should be the last to lecture others on ethics. How dare you write such malevolent drivel?
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@unknownuser said:
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…
One would think that based on ones christian morals but it's far fom the truth, facts my friends facts.
Here are the athiest stats:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
and here crime rates:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
I guess you are dead wrong.
And as far as religion verses productivity, you are kidding as Nigeria, Albania and Iran are rated as the most religious countries, just do a Google check on how productive they are.
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@unknownuser said:
In countries where percentage of Atheists is large, the rate of corruption and criminality is much more higher and productivity is lower…
What a load of cojones. You’d like it to be true wouldn’t you? Unfortunately for you, Scandinavia is probably the most secular part of the world…you know, that well-known hotbed of criminality, vice, indolence and desperation. As usual you simply invent stuff to justify your prejudice.
The local Rotary club, of which I am a member, is too busy working for the disadvantaged in the local community and the 3rd World to bother about whether individual members have been moved by the Holy Spirit or not. Indeed, we have people from a variety of faiths and none at all. I judge people by their deeds, not their degree of sanctimony. If God has any sense, he does the same thing. Christ had a fairly low opinion of Pharisees, forever quoting the 'rule book'.
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@unknownuser said:
Pete,
Your links are presenting other kind of statistics, for example Murders vs. Corruption and Criminality.
I finished – I have no other comments!Shame, 'cause I was eagerly awaiting that answer you promised me.
EDIT:
@unknownuser said:
P.S.: Stinkie, I'll sent you a PM!
No, Cornel. Share your insights here.
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Pete,
Your links are presenting other kind of statistics, for example Murders vs. Corruption and Criminality.
I finished – I have no other comments!Cornel
P.S.: Stinkie, I'll sent you a PM!
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Cornel, if you do not like my stats then google your own, no matter where you look you ain't gonna find any that support your claims.
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And to think I only wanted to know what he meant by this:
@unknownuser said:
Stinkie wrote:
“I meant that the 'afterlife' will consist of either burial or cremation. The best you can hope for, is that parts of you will be recycled to help out others.”Is there a problem for you if those “others” will be undesirable beings or things?!
Someone toss me some paracetamol.
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I was going to add my 2 cents to this debate.
I watched as reasoned, rational, logical points were made.
And all that was provided in response was the same irrational (and always long!) quotes from the "holy scriptures". Quotes that can usually (and have) been interpreted to support any viewpoint you choose.Pete, Alan, Stinkie, EscapeArtist etc, you are wasting time trying to reason with a "faith belief".
We just have to hope that one day the vast majority of people will start to see the world as viewed here: http://richarddawkins.net/
I don't agree with everything on this site but it has to be a much greater starting point than adopting those childish superstitions called religion.
Regards
Mr S -
Excuses, please, that I’m late w/ this answer promised to Stinkie. He insisted to share it w/ you, not to send to him via PM.
Stinkie said that after his time on earth (see page 12), he will be “either fire or worms” (meaning burial or cremation act), but he perhaps will be “recycled to help out others.”
My rhetoric questin to him was if it’s there a problm if he will be recycled into an undesirable destination, to be shure if he eventual treated reincarnation aspect, but he didn’t.
“What do you mean?” – asked me Stinkie.
{EDIT: see: "by stinkie on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:27 am"}Reincarnation is not possible, because a human spirit has only one material support – one body. That body (recycled or not - see below) will be restaurated in one of two possible versions, based on life status of respective person: was or wasn’t ‘born again’.
Now, because Stinkie isn’t born again, I will present his proper Bible ‘setting’:“I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:12-15)
Born again people aren’t part of that judgement and their ‘setting’is totaly different. There aren’t advocates, because everything was recorded. Names of unbelievers aren’t recorded in the Book of Life. Second death is a spiritual one.
Only for living people, there is a way of salvation:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“Jesus told him: I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.” (John 14:60)Now, for a while, we are living people… How long?!
Friends, tomorrow is not ours..., even we are megastars!Cornel
PS: See you on other topic! -
I think at that point Cornel misunderstood ..he thought that u(stinkie) said about reincarnation, but u were talking just about recycling of your body in the use of others people.
Have a nice day!Live in peace!Elisei
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I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion but have to add my two cents just to see what kind of replys I get. Yes I'm a believer, no, not hard core, I won't quote any bible scriptures, and I do struggle with this issue sometimes which gets me looking at both sides. However it's always the science that seems to bring me back to my faith. Yes creatures evolve, its a survival mechanism to deal with changing enviroments but why are we the only creatures that have evolved to this point and how was it possible? Science even has a little problem explaining this.
"Using tools has been interpreted as a sign of intelligence, and it has been theorized that tool use may have stimulated certain aspects of human evolution—most notably the continued expansion of the human brain. Paleontology has yet to explain the expansion of this organ over millions of years despite being extremely demanding in terms of energy consumption. The brain of a modern human consumes about 20 watts (400 kilocalories per day), which is one fifth of the energy consumption of a human body."
My other point would be whether you're a believer or not, I don't see a problem living your life using the bible as a guide line, the ten commandments, loving your neighbor, turning the other cheek, and so on, could make the world a better place.Mike
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Man... I thought the answer was 42
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@alpro said:
My other point would be whether you're a believer or not, I don't see a problem living your life using the bible as a guide line, the ten commandments, loving your neighbor, turning the other cheek, and so on, could make the world a better place.
Of course that isn't a problem. Some of my best friends are religious, and they use the Bible or the Koran as their guide. They are kind, compassionate people, and have the common sense not to take their 'holy book' too literally.
However, the past years -decades?- we've seen the numbers of people who DO take either the Bible or the Koran literally rise. And that IS a problem. A major problem, even. I am not afraid of my friends, you or, say, David or Eric - you're reasonable folks, with a sense of humour. I do firmly fear apparent fundamentalists like Cornel, though. They don't meet anyone in the middle, they don't compromise, they don't crack jokes. They merely subject or destroy.
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%(#FF0000)[
@unknownuser said:"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."
]Linus Van Pelt
There is wisdom
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I’m quite happy to go along with that, Mike. It might not be the impression you get from some of my replies, but I actually sing in a church choir fairly regularly. There are some very good lessons in the Bible and some very good work done by the church and people who attend it.
What really annoys me are the Holy Joes like Cornel who tell me I’m going to Hell because I don’t subscribe to their own particular narrow interpretation of it. It’s a flawed document; there’s crude propaganda, ancient superstition and downright political spin in there along with the good stuff. It’s been edited to death and whole books omitted because they didn’t fit in with the politics of the time or certain arrogant churchmen decided that they sent a mixed message to the sheep.If leading as good a life as you can, helping others less fortunate and generally treating others with respect and kindliness is all for nought because you haven’t spent half your life doing nothing but shout “Praise the Lord” in the hope it’ll get you onto the fast track through the Pearly Gates, then God has come up with a system that totally sucks…and I’m quite prepared to tell Him to his face.
I don’t for one moment think that is the case, however; and I’m not going to stand by and watch medieval superstition and ignorance take precedence over science and using the brains God gave us….even if He gave us them by a very indirect route. -
Stinkie and Alan, I agree with both of you. Almost everything, including religion, if taken to an extreme will not have the desired effect.
Mike
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@alpro said:
Stinkie and Alan, I agree with both of you. Almost everything, including religion, if taken to an extreme will not have the desired effect.
How 'bout we found a new one? Alan could be the Divine Being, given he's willing to wear Lederhösen. David H. can be Alan's Mother, if he fancies to.
off to mock up Sacred Scrolls
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