Bonzai 3D First Impressions
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@xrok1 said:
i think the script writers will stop when they find a SK killer, just like everyone else. SK is the prog we love to hate, its like our own child we overlook its flaws and and keep hoping it will grow up. the script writers are molding it into maturity, i think half of their efforts are just to show google what SK could and should be.
the thing i don't understand is that there are ump-teen 3d packages out there but somehow the elegant simplicity of SK seems to evade every other developer in the industry? nobody wants to make "another SK". i say please do, but finish the job, do it right. any developer please take SK loadup your favorite scripts play with it, see how it works, and how it dosn't; now don't go out and remake a 3Dmax or Silo or LW clone, make an SK clone, but fix it ,improve it, charge $295 for it ,then beat'em off with a stick and reserve my copy.
the sky really won't fall if someone goes head to head with SK as long as they do it right ,the customer base is already there just waiting.
remember one man made Moi3d http://moi3d.com/(similiar to SK but nurb based)really nice program. i think an SK clone would be an easier task for talented people(s). (give it a try Whaat
)Perhaps it just isnt that easy...
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@linea said:
It is not in Autodesks interest to simplify the software, the elitism is part of the marketing strategy...
Wonderful quote...and oh so true.
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@unknownuser said:
the thing i don't understand is that there are ump-teen 3d packages out there but somehow the elegant simplicity of SK seems to evade every other developer in the industry? nobody wants to make "another SK".
No they don't, because traditionally 3d modelling and cad has been a fairly elitist industry dominated by one or two monopolies. These monopolies keep their old-school customers happy, as they are the ones who can afford the software and the training (or can be bothered to read a manual as thick as a bible) so it keeps them useful in the industry, so long as they dismiss Sketchup and any other cheap upstarts. It is not in Autodesk's interests to simplify the software, the elitism is part of the marketing strategy. IMO
But Autodesk messed up with Autocad and suddenly they added push-pull and sketchy styles because they realised people wanted it. I'm sure they could have done it years ago but decided to keep it in the bag for as long as possible.
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As xrok1 said --
This appears to be an attempt to get form•Z users in athe ground floor -- get them used to the form•Z way of doing things and then get them to buy what is the most overpriced modeller on the market these days.
It is, to all intents and purposes, form•Z. It's still based on the ACIS modelling libraries. I thought that it would be more along the lines of 3DVia -- a SketchUp clone.
Wow, I'm really missing the ability to pan & orbit with the mouse.
Has anyone found a way to edit derived surfaces after creation? I thought the generating spline was supposed to stay active? Maybe in the 'full' version.
Anyone found any shadow-casting capabilities yet?
And why can't we just download the videos and peruse them at our leisure?
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@xrok1 said:
the thing i don't understand is that there are ump-teen 3d packages out there but somehow the elegant simplicity of SK seems to evade every other developer in the industry? nobody wants to make "another SK". i say please do, but finish the job, do it right.
There's 3DVia -- as to whether they're doing it 'right'...
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I had a look at Bonzai3D - the beta version is still extremely beta (didn't manage to run it longer than 2 minutes without crashing; and only when using very basic tools).
graphic is very slow and choppy as well. by no means ready to be released yet.but there are some things that look pretty impressive. when I look at certain 'reshape' tools, like the 'round-edges', the 'twist' or the 'bend function... that quickly shows, how limited and slow SketchUp can be (what Bonzai3D does with one mouse-click would afford a lot of work and the use of several rubies).
how do they do it? are they using some sort of auto-subdivide or are all objects built of NURBS?
by the way. that is exactly how I would like a SketchUp-NURBS to work... -
Bonzai crashes every time at my first click in the viewport. Beta, I'd call it pre Alpha at the most. -
Has anyone figured how to orbit the view and how to do a marquee selection?
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oooooouuuu! Bonzai looks interesting. Sketchup has some stiff competition coming its way! Which can only be a good thing. I am looking forward to SU8 even more now.
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Orbit = Ctrl + Right Mouse Button
Pan = Click not release Wheel Mouse Button and moveSeems the prog run only connected to the Net, is that the same for you?
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I can't get it to run at all.
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Gentlemen (and ladies?),
Thank you for taking the opportunity to try our new software, bonzai3d! Bonzai3d is a new 3D modeler developed to fill in the demand for a quick, easy, simple but, most importantly, geometrically robust approach to 3D.
We have worked hard to make it as powerful, user friendly, and intuitive as possible. We are convinced that if you take the time to watch the introductory videos, and give it a test drive, that you will find it to be both easy to use, as well as a powerful modeling program.
bonzai3d is still in beta, so some irregularities are expected, and these will be corrected as soon as we are informed about them. However, some of the comments posted in this thread raise suspicions that there may be problems with the systems on which it is being run. bonZai3d utilizes OpenGL extensively, so it is rather important that you hvae properly installed and up to date video drivers. Likewise, for operating systems. We do not want to bother you with too many technicalities, but we will be happy to help you if you are interested in the details. Also, if you have any specific questions about features of b3d, we shall be happy to answer, here or on our forum: http://www.bonzai3d.com/beta_forum.html (It is preferable to post questions to our forum, as we monitor these more frequently -- and thus we can respond more quickly.) You can also email us at support@bonzai3d.com if you like.
Concluding this we would like to thank you all for hosting a discussion about b3d. We would also like to take this opportunity and express our respect for the SketchUp application. We have no interest in "killing" it. On the contrary, we expect SketchUp and b3d to compliment each other and hopefully this will be made easier when SketchUp evolves to the next level, as many of you have been requesting. Of course, you can also expect b3d to continue evolving as we hear feedback from you, and our other users.
We will make another post that includes more specific answers to questions you have raised here.
bonzai3d Technical Support
support@bonzai3d.com -
To address a few specific issues that have been raised on this thread:
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Initially demand for bonzai3d was incredible and it swamped our servers. We have dramatically increased capacity, and it should be running properly now.
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If you are still having stability issues on Windows after updating your system and video driver, please send your system specifications to support@bonzai3d.com so we can test with your specific hardware configuration.
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Navigation: You can zoom in or out with the wheel mouse. You can orbit the scene by clicking and dragging with the Ctrl key (WIN) or Command key (OS X) pressed while dragging the cursor with the left mouse button pressed. You can pan by dragging with the middle mouse wheel pressed. You can navigate with the arrow keys. And you can access many more navigation functions via the Edit Menu: Key Shortcuts: Direct View Navigation commands.
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The introductory videos are not yet on our web site, but we are working on this. If you have downloaded and run bonzai3d Beta, then you can access the videos from the start-up screen. See the Navigation video -- and others for details on how bonzai3d works.
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Fakircho -- you mention that you can only zoom out with your track pad. Which navigation technique are you trying to use?
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Lewiswadsworth -- You mention that you are getting reproducible crashes. Can you please send your BNZ.zip file to support@bonzai3d.com so we can investigate this?
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Tim Danaher -- There are some similarities with formZ, but there are many many differences. Have you checked the introductory videos yet, and really given it a try?
... to be continued
bonzai3d Support
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Wow, SketchUcation is extremely visible in Google... Every single time we start discussing a new app, a representative comes here in no time.
I'll check the Bonzai videos. I remember dissin' SketchUp for years until I sat one entire day, from morning to late night, to watch all the 28 tutorial videos, and then started to design immediately. I had never before learned to use a 3D app in a single day! I hope Bonzai3D has a similar learning curve... I said hope. -
@unknownuser said:
We would also like to take this opportunity and express our respect for the SketchUp application. We have no interest in "killing" it. On the contrary, we expect SketchUp and b3d to compliment each other
well said.
B3D support, I suppose that the hype for this product has been high so many here will hold it to a similar bar when evaluating a product that was rumoured to be the all in one 3D modeling solution.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to our members regarding your product and welcome to GSCF by the way.
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- bonzai3d should work fine when not connected to the net -- although the net is required to view the introductory videos. If you are having trouble running bonzai3d when you are not connected, please email your specifications to support@bonzai3d.com so we can invistigate this.
Ecuadorian (et al) -- I am sure that if you take the time to fully investigate bonzai3d, you will not be disappointed.
Again, please don't hesitate to contact us directly if you are have any questions or problems. You can also check our Forum at: http://www.bonzai3d.com/beta_forum.html, where you can get more info and quicker feedback.
b3d!
bonzai3d support
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Bonzai3DSupport --
Thanks for your presence here -- very much appreciated.
Will be back tomorrer with more observations -- or as and when time permits.
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Gentlemen,
Thanks for the warm reception on your forum. We hope to be able to provide answers to all your questions.
We have found that there can be issues when running bonzai3d without an internet connection. We are working to get this resolved ASAP.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
bonzai3d Support
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@tim danaher said:
@xrok1 said:
the thing i don't understand is that there are ump-teen 3d packages out there but somehow the elegant simplicity of SK seems to evade every other developer in the industry? nobody wants to make "another SK". i say please do, but finish the job, do it right.
There's 3DVia -- as to whether they're doing it 'right'...
3DVia is good for making paper dolls IMO, its been around a long time and hasn't really developed.
@unknownuser said:
We have no interest in "killing" it. On the contrary, we expect SketchUp and b3d to compliment each other
thats what we (I anyway) don't want, more complimentary software.
gee, lets add one more step to our process -
@bonzai3d support said:
We would also like to take this opportunity and express our respect for the SketchUp application. We have no interest in "killing" it. On the contrary, we expect SketchUp and b3d to compliment each other and hopefully this will be made easier when SketchUp evolves to the next level, as many of you have been requesting. Of course, you can also expect b3d to continue evolving as we hear feedback from you, and our other users.
Mmmm...at the AIA convention earlier this year, the word at your booth was not killing--I'll grant you that. It was replacement. When I casually expressed some skepticism concerning this, I inadvertently provoked an awkward scene that was witnessed by other members of this forum and which is best left undescribed further.
Now that we have all become a little more pessimistic about the future of SketchUp (it can't coast on Rubies forever), I'll also grant that the time is ripe for a replacement. So I will give your program a few more tries as time permits and try to figure out what I did that crashed it. But I agree with Tim's earlier opinion that there is a lot here that is obviously derived from FormZ. And I once quit a well-paying job with a visualization firm for an intern architect's negligible salary when it became obvious that my destiny was to be the "FormZ guy" for the rest of my time in that visualization firm. I've never regretted that decision, ever. I'm staring right now at the long-unused dongles for about $4k worth of various earlier versions of FormZ that were purchased using my own not-very-great savings. I keep them around to remind me of this so-often-overlooked fact: it's not what a program can do, it's what a person can comfortably do with the program.
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