Guy charging U$100 for package containing free rubies!!
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"Thanks for making all these free plugins so I can make money on them even though they are available for free." hmmm...
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Dear Gaieus,
Perhaps the chap's membership to this Forum could and should be terminated, and a PM sent to him explaining why.
Regards,
Bob -
Bob,
I don't know if he is a member here (and with what username) but if I terminated his membership, how could he receive that PM?
Well, anyway, the question is quite academic now as simply terminating anyone's membership wouldn't solve the problem. There are hopefully other means going to take place.
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@gaieus said:
There are hopefully other means going to take place.
I second this! We are working on an idea that may go a ways to help to curtail unscrupulous people like the 'gentleman' mentioned from financially piggy backing on Ruby Scripters hard OPEN work.
I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot more of these attempts now that SketchUp is fast becoming so popular so it is receiving our top priority.
Mike
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..i wonder if he got the concept from my toolbar series
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EDIT: removed, off topic
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i have just sent him a note, as follows:
@unknownuser said:
prezado ezequiel,
sou arquiteto de porto alegre, professor na ufrgs, e moderador do SCF (Sketchup Community Forums).
recentemente chegou ao nosso conhecimento o pacote de ferramentas Ark-Z SKP6, que tu comercializas a partir do teu site. sempre nos interessa qualquer iniciativa desse tipo, pois em geral ferramentas adicionais melhoram o desempenho do sketchup e auxiliam seus usuários, que é o objetivo do forum.
no entanto, ao analisar o que tu ofereces nos chamou atenção o fato de que vários dos scripts que fazem parte do teu pacote não são da tua autoria. mais ainda, são scripts de autores conhecidos no forum e que distribuem os seus scripts de graça.
sabemos também que, em algum ponto do teu site, há uma lista informando a autoria dos scripts. isso é muito bom e está correto. também se sabe que muitos scripts permitem que outros os modifiquem à vontade, e essa permissão quase sempre consta do texto dos scripts. é muito provável que tu imagines que é suficiente dar crédito aos autores. porém, o problema que está criado é que tu estás fazendo uso comercial de scripts que são distribuídos gratuitamente, e sem consultar os seus autores.
a descoberta do teu pacote causou consternação na nossa comunidade (que não é pequena: hoje somos quase 13.000 membros). no brasil é muito comum o uso de software ilegal e poucos ligam para isso, mas no exterior isso é levado muito a sério. o forum SCF tem por princípio não incentivar qualquer iniciativa que fira a ética e não respeite a autoria.
por isso, tomo a liberdade de sugerir que faças contato com os autores dos scripts em questão. parece justo que eles também lucrem com a venda do seu trabalho.
qualquer iniciativa oficial do SCF contra ti teria um efeito desagradável. algo tão simples quanto um aviso de que boa parte do que tu vendes pode ser obtido de graça já seria comprometedor e prejudicaria a tua imagem.
atenciosamente,
--
Edson Mahfuz, PhD
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul
Porto Alegre - RS - BrasilMailto: edson@mahfuz.arq.br
translation:
dear ezequiel,
i am an architect in porto alegre and a professor at ufrgs, as well as a moderator at SCF.
it just came to our knowledge that you are selling a package of tools for sketchup. in general, all attempts to improve sketchup's capabilities and make its users' life easier interests us at SCF.
however, a quick look at the tools you included in the package indicates that many of the scripts were not authored by you. moreover, their authors are well known among us and their scripts are usually distributed for free.
we are aware that you mention their names in your site as the authors of those scripts. we also know that many of those authors grant permission "to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any purpose and without fee" as long as copyright is preserved. this is where the problem is situated: you are making commercial use of scripts that are freely given away, and without getting permission from their authors.
the knowledge of what you are doing caused consternation at the SCF (we are now almost 13.000 strong). the use of illegal software may be commom in many parts of the world but we at SCF frown upon any unethical attitude regarding software and authorship.
thus i take the liberty of suggesting that you contact the authors of the scripts you included in your package. it is just fair that they benefit from the sale of their own work.
any attitude that we may take about this matter can have a very disagreable outcome for you. even something as simple as warning our members not to buy from you what they can get here and elsewhere for free would be damaging to your commercial reputation.
sincerely,
etc.
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Thats a nice text Edson. I hope he sees reason.
although he DID translate and created toolbars, I dont think thats enough of a work for him to charge money, considering the most hard work was the scripts themselves.
yes, he created several scripts too. I dont know how good they are and if they are worth money, but certainly, if they are good enough, he can sell such scripts and even more, sell to non brazilians too (through SMustard for example)
anyway, if he doesnt agree with all that, one thing we CAN do is to put him out of business in a simple way, without needing to resort to judicial means.
How? Simply by we creating a package just like his package, with THE SAME SCRIPTS, all translated to portuguese, with his icons (lol, ladrão que rouba ladrão tem 100 anos de perdão), and distribute it for free (obviously). We announce the package everywhere. Nobody will buy his tools anymore
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Do I pay for the ARK-Z plugins?
The question is why. If the vast majority of the plugins included in the toolbar are distributed for free.
Is it legal to pay for something they do not own? If not that way. WHY is it possible?
Authors should get paid for effort, but ... those who usurp the property of others should be punished
Sorry, my English is not good and use the translator google
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i suggest we do this:
- wait a couple of days to see if the guy answers my email.
- in case he does not or his answer does not satisfy us, we should post a warning at the ruby forum (and in any other places you may suggest like, for instance, the Ruby Depot) to the effect that scripts A, B,...Z, included in the package Ark-Z SKP6, can be downloaded for free.
feel free to complement my suggestion.
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List of The Plugins by Alphabetical Order of the Plugin Names
3PointTool.rb @Last Software, Inc.
AddVertex.rb TIG
AddVertex+.rb TIG
aitop.rb ODM
align_tool.rb Didier Bur
animation2.rb @Last Software, Inc.
Arcs.rb Didier Bur
arkz_animation2.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_arquitetura.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_cameras.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_creditos.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_draw_2d.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_draw_3d.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_filters.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_layer_manager_v6.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_menus.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_modify.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_projection.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
arkz_tools.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
AxisLock.rb Victor Liu
balustrade.rb Tomasz Marek
bezierspline.rb @Last Software, Inc.
BezPatch.rb Victor Liu
bez-patch.rb Victor Liu
BezPatchEdit.rb Victor Liu
BezPatchTool.rb Victor Liu
bomb.rb Rick Wilson
boxes_random.rb @Last Software, Inc.
BZ__BSplineU.rb Fredo6
BZ__CubicBezier.rb Fredo6
BZ__Divider.rb Fredo6
cab.rb
cabinet.rb Todd Burch
CadalogBeamTool.rb Cadalog, Inc.
centerpoint.rb Todd Burch
cleanup_model.rb John H. Aughey
Clinetool.rb Google, Inc.
Cloud_v6.rb Didier Bur
ContourMaker.rb TIG
cratetool.rb Tim
curvestitcher21.rb RW
dim_angle.rb Didier Bur
divide_cpoint.rb
dline.rb Didier Bur
DoorMaker.rb PKR
draw_frame.rb Tomot
draw_glass.rb Tomot
draw_mullion.rb Tomot
draw_trim.rb Tomot
drawhelix13.rb Peter Brown
ellipse.rb Didier Bur
entfilter.rb Francisco Rodriguez
exploder.rb Remi Goux
extend11.rb Rick Wilson
extrud_along_normal.rb Wkai
extrude_lines.rb Didier Bur
FacePusher.rb Uli Tessel
Frame_Tool.rb Tomot
Geodesic_SketchUp.rb Gavin Kistner
geom_selection.rb
Glass_Tool Tomot
groupByLayer.rb Rick Wilson
groupByTexture.rb Rick Wilson
helicoidal_ramp.rb ODM
helix12.rb Rick Wilson
joisttool.rb @Last Software, Inc.
k_tools_50.rb Klaudius
Layer_manager.rb Didier Bur
LibTraductor.rb Fredo6
line2cyl.rb Didier Bur
lines2walls_13.rb Didier Bur
LSystem.rb a4chitect
mesh_additions.rb @Last Software, Inc.
Mirror_31.rb Frank Wiesner
Mullion_Tool.rb Tomot
numb.rb TBD
opener.rb Didier Bur
paint_altitude_faces.rb Didier Bur
parametric.rb @Last Software, Inc.
parametric_grid.rb @Last Software, Inc.
pathcopy.rb Rick Wilson
PipeAlongPath.rb TIG
projection.rb Didier Bur
PurgeAll.rb TIG
pushpull_tool.rb @Last Software, Inc.
quick_selection.rb Didier Bur
randomPushPull.rb Didier Bur
rectangle.rb @Last Software, Inc.
register.rb Ezequiel M Rezende
remove_materials.rb Todd Burch
Roof.rb TIG
scrtool.rb Todd Burch
SectionCutFace.rb TIG
shapes.rb @Last Software, Inc.
SketchyFFD.rb Chris Phillips
Slicer.rb TIG
stair.rb
stairconctool3.rb Tim
terrain_reshaper.rb Didier Bur
Toolbars.rb Nathan Cheever
Trim_Tool.rb Tomot
vector.flat_angle.rb
weld.rb Rick Wilson
windowizer.rb Rick Wilson
windows.rb @Last Software, Inc.
xLine.rb Rick Wilson
xLine2Line.rb TIG
ZLoader__OnSurface.rb Fredo6List of The Plugins by Alphabetical Order of the Author Names (in bold, the plugins created by the pack author)
@Last Software, Inc. 3PointTool.rb
@Last Software, Inc. animation2.rb
@Last Software, Inc. bezierspline.rb
@Last Software, Inc. boxes_random.rb
@Last Software, Inc. joisttool.rb
@Last Software, Inc. mesh_additions.rb
@Last Software, Inc. parametric.rb
@Last Software, Inc. parametric_grid.rb
@Last Software, Inc. pushpull_tool.rb
@Last Software, Inc. rectangle.rb
@Last Software, Inc. shapes.rb
@Last Software, Inc. windows.rb
a4chitect LSystem.rb
Cadalog, Inc. CadalogBeamTool.rb
Chris Phillips SketchyFFD.rb
Didier Bur align_tool.rb
Didier Bur Arcs.rb
Didier Bur Cloud_v6.rb
Didier Bur dim_angle.rb
Didier Bur dline.rb
Didier Bur ellipse.rb
Didier Bur extrude_lines.rb
Didier Bur Layer_manager.rb
Didier Bur line2cyl.rb
Didier Bur lines2walls_13.rb
Didier Bur opener.rb
Didier Bur paint_altitude_faces.rb
Didier Bur projection.rb
Didier Bur quick_selection.rb
Didier Bur randomPushPull.rb
Didier Bur terrain_reshaper.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_animation2.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_arquitetura.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_cameras.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_creditos.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_draw_2d.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_draw_3d.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_filters.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_layer_manager_v6.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_menus.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_modify.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_projection.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende arkz_tools.rb
Ezequiel M Rezende register.rb
Francisco Rodriguez entfilter.rb
Frank Wiesner Mirror_31.rb
Fredo6 BZ__BSplineU.rb
Fredo6 BZ__CubicBezier.rb
Fredo6 BZ__Divider.rb
Fredo6 LibTraductor.rb
Fredo6 ZLoader__OnSurface.rb
Gavin Kistner Geodesic_SketchUp.rb
Google, Inc. Clinetool.rb
John H. Aughey cleanup_model.rb
Klaudius k_tools_50.rb
Nathan Cheever Toolbars.rb
ODM aitop.rb
ODM helicoidal_ramp.rb
Peter Brown drawhelix13.rb
PKR DoorMaker.rb
Remi Goux exploder.rb
Rick Wilson bomb.rb
Rick Wilson extend11.rb
Rick Wilson groupByLayer.rb
Rick Wilson groupByTexture.rb
Rick Wilson helix12.rb
Rick Wilson pathcopy.rb
Rick Wilson weld.rb
Rick Wilson windowizer.rb
Rick Wilson xLine.rb
RW curvestitcher21.rb
TBD numb.rb
TIG AddVertex.rb
TIG AddVertex+.rb
TIG ContourMaker.rb
TIG PipeAlongPath.rb
TIG PurgeAll.rb
TIG Roof.rb
TIG SectionCutFace.rb
TIG Slicer.rb
TIG xLine2Line.rb
Tim cratetool.rb
Tim stairconctool3.rb
Todd Burch cabinet.rb
Todd Burch centerpoint.rb
Todd Burch remove_materials.rb
Todd Burch scrtool.rb
Tomasz Marek balustrade.rb
Tomot draw_frame.rb
Tomot draw_glass.rb
Tomot draw_mullion.rb
Tomot draw_trim.rb
Tomot Frame_Tool.rb
Tomot Glass_Tool
Tomot Mullion_Tool.rb
Tomot Trim_Tool.rb
Uli Tessel FacePusher.rb
Victor Liu AxisLock.rb
Victor Liu BezPatch.rb
Victor Liu bez-patch.rb
Victor Liu BezPatchEdit.rb
Victor Liu BezPatchTool.rb
Wkai extrud_along_normal.rb
cab.rb
divide_cpoint.rb
geom_selection.rb
stair.rb
vector.flat_angle.rb -
can someone identify what were the rubys he used for each TOOLBAR? (descriptions of each ruby inside the links)
ARK-Z ARQUITETURA:
Ark-Z Desenho 2D
Ark-Z Desenho 3D
Ark-Z Modificadores
Ark-Z Ferramentas
http://ark-z.atspace.com/skp/paginas/toolbar_layers.htm
Ark-Z Layers
Ark-Z Filtros Seleção
ARK-Z CÂMERAS
Ark-Z Projeção
Ark-Z Graphs
Ark-Z TOS
Ark-Z Estilos de Arestas
Ark-Z Opções
Ark-Z Páginas
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Hi,
This guy never asked me anything. I am really angry.
He says he revamped the icons, but for instance if you take a look at the layer manager toolbar, it's a joke !
I consider him a stealer, and I will put a banner on my site warning everybody NOT to buy anything like his package.
The Ruby Depot is number 1 on top of a Google search with "ruby scripts" as keywords, so I hope, as we say in french "to cut the grass under his feet". -
@didier bur said:
Hi,
This guy never asked me anything. I am really angry.
He says he revamped the icons, but for instance if you take a look at the layer manager toolbar, it's a joke !
I consider him a stealer, and I will put a banner on my site warning everybody NOT to buy anything like his package.
The Ruby Depot is number 1 on top of a Google search with "ruby scripts" as keywords, so I hope, as we say in french "to cut the grass under his feet".Didier, I think the best thing we can do is to offer a package WITH THE SAME PLUGINS, WITH THE SAME TOOLBARS, and in several languages (the brazilian and portuguese forumers here can help translate plugins into portuguese)... and then we make it available FOR FREE.
one of the reasons brazilians may buy HIS package is because he translated everything to portuguese, and many people are not good enough in english to use english plugins.
in the moment we give FOR FREE what is already free, but also make it available in more languages, and with the nice toolbars, we literally dismantled his market.
ps: i think the most irritating thing is that he is not even charging a moderate value for his work of drawing a few icons and "searching plugins on the internet" and translating them. He is charging A LOT!
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The miserable git has included my one and only Ruby! (drawhelix13)
Wants 'king with the rough end of a pineapple. -
the guy answered my email to him. at first he tried to excuse himself by saying that all he is selling is the work he has done on the toolbars and the translations, since the "scripts are free anyway". that did not go down very well with me. eventually he said he did not mean to cheat anyone and seemed willing to come to terms with all the authors of the scripts he "translated".
i told him he should get in touch with everyone involved immediately if he wants to avoid a campaign against him in several skp-related internet sites. he told me he has not yet started selling the packages, as there is some paper work that must be done and it is not finished yet... let's see what happens next.
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well Edson, apparently his site went offline. (or at least, the links to his pack)
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Well done Edson. I think your letter must have had the desired effect. Or maybe Didier "cut the grass under his feet" and sliced off his soles while doing it
Anyway, I think it will work out okay. It just goes to show that some doors may be to be closed!
Mike
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I have no clue how much work ARKZ did on this, but that sure is a long list of other people's scripts. And it is clearly wrong to use other's freely distributed work in a commercial release.
However, I appreciate the idea of it. While his price is steep, he puts together a nice package, including themed toolbars and icons. For someone new to Rubys like myself, it collects and organizes things and adds a context to a hodgepodge of tools available under different terms from a variety of sources. I look at what he offers and I see a better workflow. I'd like something like this available in a fairer way.
Learning SketchUp with this many tools would add a lot to the curve, making it more formidable like, say, Rhino. But for an intermediate level user, it would be handy to have all this stuff put together in one place, updated s new scripts come out.
Is a volunteer up for such an ongoing task, or a group of volunteers? It's asking a lot. Would Google SU take it on? Charging anything for the collection adds immensely to the problems— how can you compensate for scripts— by the piece, the time involved, the lines of code? Try leveling that playing field.
This is as good a place as any to say once again how much I appreciate the thousands of hours the Ruby writers have put in to making SketchUp a better tool. Most of them only get paid by our thanks and the satisfaction of all the creative work they have had an indirect hand in. We owe them a lot.
Jim
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Fine, Edson, thanks!
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