Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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Why are the people supporting Kent in his 'free' adventure the ones who promote themselves here on a commercial base?
(...hinting on the advertisement signatures people post at the bottom of their replies...)I hope this forum isn't getting too commercial.
We already bare with the adsense advertisements...This thread started with an opening line that advertises a book from Amazon....
Luckily this got moved to the corner bar. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
Why are the people supporting Kent in his 'free' adventure the ones who promote themselves here on a commercial base?
I would say that "I am amazed by the amount of negative response to this issue", but I guess it is not that surprising (unfortunately).
I think it is better to be friendly and support anyone you can.
We have made changes to RpTreeMaker specifically to make it work better with Podium, V-Ray and Kerkythea. Someone did ask why we were doing this (since we sell a competitive product).
Another adviser had good advice: "Don't worry about the competitors. Anything you can do to help promote the concept of better rendering will help you and your own renderer in the long run."
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
@sorgesu said:
He did not set out to personally insult you, it wasn't necessary to afford him such a poor welcome.
How does not agreeing with someone equate to affording him a poor welcome? As I said before, this is a forum, a place of debate. People merely disagreed with Kent, and explained why they didn't. They didn't tar and feather him.
Kent's conclusion that he apparently isn't welcome here, is a bit exaggerated, I think. Chill, K-man!
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Kent
It was not my intention to humiliate you or "beat up on you". I hope that you will keep posting.
| do appreciate the tight spot you are in. Maybe I over-reacted as I'm a bit fed up of being asked to do free work, it sometimes seems like enquiries like that far outnumber the paid jobs.
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Stinkie, kent was hardly welcomed with open arms, was he?
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Hi Al,
Your contribution to the SU community is great!
I like it how you mix free add-ons with commercial ones.
No problem with that.It's just that the degree of 'commerciality' on this forum is increasing.
I am not sure if that's a good thing.This thread can easily be put here as viral marketing to promote a book...
(I am not saying it is) -
I feel really bad now. I'm not a ranting nutter usually, I hate upsetting people.
Sorry to all that I offended.
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@remus said:
Stinkie, kent was hardly welcomed with open arms, was he?
No, he wasn't. Then again, he himself didn't excell in courtesy:
@kent l said:
With all due respect, I didn't post this request to get in a philosophical debate with some stranger who doesn't know me or the publishing industry. There are tremendous expenses involved in writing and illustrating a 450 page, four color book, much time and money invested, etc.
The above is elaboratorese for "shut up". Public forum. Debate. Etc. When posting on a forum like this, one simply cannot ad hoc deny others their right to share their view, even if they do not agree with you.
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I don't think there's any need to feel sorry. All you did, was disagree with Kent. You did so both politely and eloquently.
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Kwist,
I'm sorry the "signature" offends you. I specifically asked and got permission for that last year from the moderators. I don't want to do anything "against the rules".
I'm sorry that people who are doing the best they can to make a living is offensive to you. I have been a long standing member of the SketchUp community and slowly tranformed into selling commercial products over time. I developed many friends here and most of them are "rooting" for me and support me. I like to support others who are trying to start or promote a business as well as I know how tough it is. Generally the products that are advertised in and around forums such as this are quite directed and geared to the very audience that participates in the forum. It can be useful. If there weren't many people who were interested in the advertised products then people wouldn't advertise, so clearly some people find the adverts beneficial.I don't know why those of you who are in a "service" business think that any one who is selling a product is rolling in dough and represents evil big business and has no right to bring your attention to their product. Architecture is a specialized and tiny market and traditional advertising is so expensive as to make it impossible to use and still offer the product at a marketable price.
Yes I support any individual or group of individuals who is starting a business, struggling with a business and small enough to be personally involved in these forums. That is not to say I support only people who sell a product. I also offers services in training and modelling. I certainly understand the point of view that those of us who are performing a service are too often aske to provide above and beyond the contracted amount for free and, yes it is frustrating, but this isn't that situation. I give away a whole bunch of my stuff for free under various circumstances. Not the least is my time and my knowledge but often hard product as well. It is sometimes good business to do so and it is sometimes me just plain wanting to be helpful.
I have mouths to feed, as do you but I don't receive a paycheck. It is easy to be holier-than-though if you haven't tried to run your own business and have no empathy. Maybe you have run your own business and are so overwhelmingly successful that you don't have to make any marketing efforts. If so, then lucky you but we are not all so fortuneate. I do aplogize that my trying to make a living is so repugnant to you.
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Linea you should not feel guilty at all. One should not give ones work for free , full stop.
I am sick of people telling how this is a standard in industry....using other people to better themselves.
Apart from having architectural firm for nearly 20 years I also lecture at Northampton University. I should use my students do work for free for me. Hell no. It is imoral and I would never approve of that.Susan I am pretty sure you have a lot of entourage DVD which are not selling well and collecting dust. Why don't you send them to me and in return I will tell all my clients and students about you. It is pretty much standard sort of thing in our industry.
edit: for the record these are my peersonal views and nothing to do with Podium
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Sepo, i dont think kent was asking anyone to work for free. I interpreted his post as asking wether or not anyone had a model that would be suitable for his use, and in return theyd get credited etc.
So either you have a model and let it sit on your hard drive doing bugger all, or you let him use the model and get a bit of advertising for free.
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But what do you lose by letting him use your work?
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OOOH! this is gonna be a long debated thread, and it should be too as this is a topic that comes up occasionaly and has never been resolved, I remember a similar one about Craig's list requests some time back.
Kent, please do not retreat from this, stand your ground, you have a valid case as do those that oppose your views, I am on the fence on this one as I see merit from my personal viewpoint being a freelance illustrator/artist that needs to get my name out there in order to generate busines to feed my family, yet I have been burned by a few 'potential' clients that required 'samples' free and I got screwed. Even though this case differs it's the same in many regards.
By the way welcome to SCF, we really are a nice, giving bunch of very talented individuals that will help without being asked or compensated, I guess a good debate was needed to kick of the corner bar for this year and you were fortunate enough to be the catalyst.I look forward to your rebuttal with anticipation.
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It is an issue of getting something for nothing and using it for commercial gain...that equates working for nothing.
It is not an issue of helping somebody who is nuby here....he proclaims to be "SU artist"
People on this forum bend backwards to help each other. If this was the case people would be jumping to help. Do not see much of that going on. -
@remus said:
But what do you lose by letting him use your work?
Let's say there is this cab guy who always does airport duty and you know that by now 'coz you travel out of town often. One day you flag a cab to go to the airport and it happens to be this guy. So you tell him, "Since you are going back to the airport anyway, take me there for free". He wouldn't agree, but why?
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@unknownuser said:
Let's say there is this cab guy who always does airport duty and you know that by now 'coz you travel out of town often. One day you flag a cab to go to the airport and it happens to be this guy. So you tell him, "Since you are going back to the airport anyway, take me there for free".]
Not quite what he was asking...
However if you added that the guy asking for the free ride works in a large office with many folk that need rides to the airport from time to time and you said you would pass the word and his details around to those people then you would have a similar situation.
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I ask myself what would be a reasonable remuneration for use of an image in a book like this.
Personally I reckon if it was an exceptional design and visual, $500 should be reasonable. This would equate to $0.0017 per copy on a cycle of 300000.
If he had 200 such images it would only equate to $0.33 per book.Paying for 200 images upfront would be non-viable but a royalty arrangement based on sales would make a lot of sense (and cents!) for everybody.
- Would be interesting to hear some other points of view relating to the value of such an element.
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Seems to me that Kent's request might appeal to someone's vanity. Someone might enjoy having their model featured in a book. It seems unlikely to me that the 'credit' would ever result in any work -- unless as Mike notes you were in the pre-designed houseplans business. I suspect the demographics of people reading Kent's book are very unlikely to contact an architect half way around the world. I'd suggest they are even less likely to contact a freelance illustrator. (Perhaps different if it were a book about illustration). If Kent's offer did appeal to someone's vanity, and they responded, they might still get some marketing value out of the book. For instance, by having a copy of the book in your meeting room you could show it to new clients and perhaps gain some additonal measure of confidence. Just as there is similar value in having your projects published in journals, so too could there be value in being featured in Kent's book. When published in an architectural journal you may get some respect from your peers but it is unlikely you'll get more customers. Those you do get however may be impressed that you are published. So if I'm correct, the value is really in what you'd make of it.
Kent - Welcome to these forums.
You note that manufacturers are letting you use their pictures etc for free. Shouldn't they really be paying you something to feature their products. At least take the starving writer to lunch or offer items you can use as prizes when you promote the book. Something? Anything? Just think of all those DIY shows on TV paid for by sponsors.Regards, Ross
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Other than the adsense ads, what are you referring to kwist? Im genuinely interested to hear.
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