Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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@unknownuser said:
I didn't post this request to get in a philosophical debate with some stranger who doesn't know me or the publishing industry ....
I suspect there are some people on this board who understand the concept of market trade
No I don't know you, or much about publishing. Market trade however, yeah I think I understand that. You do a job for a commercial enterprise. You are paid for it.
Even though I know nothing about publishing I would have thought settling for an off the shelf image for the cover of your book, a decision that contributes to success in the marketplace isn't the best marketing strategy. Because you won't pay for an image that would best suit your book you have set the value of your book cover at zero. I can understand that a past project that somebody has may well do the job, but you see no reason to pay them, not even a few pence?.
I don't disagree that your book is a good advertising vehicle for a 3d artist so maybe I'm shortsighted, but I have heard "marketing" suggested as a reason to work for free so many times.
Why is it that people that draw for a living are expected to give their work away in order to get exposure? I have heard this anology before; You can't go to the local grocery store, pick up a weeks shop and then say to the owner, "I'm not paying but I'll tell everybody else to come here". -
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@unknownuser said:
Hope you don't mind but this is not really a discussion about SketchUp, so I have moved it to the Corner Bar as It doesn't seem to fit into any other category.
James, that's fine by me. I never intended this to be some debate. I'm obviously not welcome here, so this will be my last post.
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@Kent,
Imagine this:"***I'm an author of an impressive House model . It is a good residential house design drawn with sufficient detail so that you can do an "x-ray" shot of the exterior and interior, showing all the layers of construction.
What I need, is a good book project on construction and remodeling for my design to be showcased in and to be used as illustrations in full color.
If any of you writers have such a book project on construction and remodeling , I'd be interested in discussing it with you. Due to the market and the costs of making design, I can't offer you any money. However, I can give you a byline and an acknowledgment inside the book and on my website. This could be some good free advertising for a writer, considering that the design has won a lot of awards.
If you're interested, contact me at: "... "
Thanks!***"
Would you, being a writer, sign up for it?
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Now, that was exciting 1 1/2 pages of thread.
wow.
Been a while since someone got chased off, I think.
Of course, I agree with all of the other boys.
How many times have I heard some variation of the theme that if I work for free/cheap, then the client is in the position to have "really important people" see it and I will get tons of work from my "donation".
And I think we all know how much work I get from these arrangements.
big fat zero.
And I think we all know how many of these jobs I am now interested in.
big fat zero.
Kent, unfortunately, you struck a bunch of really interesting, unselfish, and talented guys wrong, whether through your tone or your "offer". If you make the effort to become a part of our community, you will find that this forum is one of the best on the web, and the people here are some of the most helpful I have seen anywhere. Since you are writing a book about SU, I would think that you would enjoy being a member of one of the great results of our little "cultist" software.
Just my early morning thoughts, anyway.
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Hi Kent,
I believe you! Over a 15 year period (back in the 80s, 90s)I authored and published 6 editions of the ABS Book of House Designs. It started with 25 house design and eventually ended up with 225 designs. I know the costs involved in dealing with publishers, that is why I did it myself. I also know all about what wholesaler and retailer margins are, ouch!
I suggest that you rethink the publication and possibly incorporate advertising! This is how I covered the cost of production. At the time I used to aim for advert numbers that would cover the actual production costs and it worked quite well. In the latter publications I used to have comfortable margins.
The adverts were all related to the building industry and readers found them useful.My main objective was to sell house designs and over a 15 year period I sold 5,000 plus. I stopped publishing because I moved into property development. But I am thinking about launching the book again now that I now operate a scaled down operation.
I suggest you think about offering a simple deal to the guys that are willing to allow use of their House Designs. This might just be a page that shows the services they have on offer and maybe some thumbnails of the various house designs they have 'in stock' and of course guideline prices. Hey! maybe it might be possible to turn the tables and CHARGE them for YOUR service ...... but again I would not push it too hard
I think you would be well advise to target and deal with just ONE designer in a businesslike manner, one that would work for both of you.
Mike
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Poor Kent. I should hold my tongue becuase I can't tell you the number of times I have posted something here that I thought was innocuous and then had people jump all over me. I'm still here though.
Kent, for the most part people here are amazing and helpful and this is really a worthwhile place to be.
Then someone gets a bee in his bonnet and a bunch of people jump on board and all hell breaks loose.I don't think there was anything at all wrong with Kent's "tone". He was providig you the background info and explaining the terms. What he is suggesting is exactly the way it is done all the time in publishing this sort of trade book.
If you were being "commissioned" to model something to his "specs" you would indeed be within your rights to complain. But he doesn't want anything specific. Anything you already have that you have already been paid for but still retain the rights for will do? How much money do you want for something that you have kicking around any way? Will $100 make you happy? I suppose he could come up with that but why bother when some other person will likely be happy to have his name in print for free? Like I said, happens all the time. It is the way things work.I recently completed a stint as technical editor for a new SketchUp book by Bonnie Roskes. It is being published by O'Reilly and the amount of detailed work I needed to do was overwhelming. As a knowledgeable professional what I got paid was a joke. Worse, I had to forego othe work that would have paid well while I was doing it. This is not unusual. The publishing company relies on your hope and understanding that having your name on there is a form of payment. In fact, I don't think Bonnie will make much on the book herself either. O'Reilly might. Ask Aidan Chopra how many "millions" he has NOT made for the SketchUp for Dummies book. How about asking Jim Leggit how lucrative his books are? Generally,publishing a book, particularly a trade book, is not a way to make your fortune. There tend to be other aspirations associated with publishing the book.
Regardless, if you don't think that you would like to offer your model that has been kicking around gathering dust, for the sake of a possible little advertising, then don't. Just get out of the way and let the guy who thinks it is a good deal get in on it. Why on earth would you beat up on someone who is doing nothing different than the industry does all the time. He did not set out to personally insult you, it wasn't necessary to afford him such a poor welcome.
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@mike lucey said:
Over a 15 year period (back in the 80s, 90s)I authored and published 6 editions of the ABS Book of House Designs. It started with 25 house design and eventually ended up with 225 designs. I know the costs involved in dealing with publishers, that is why I did it myself. I also know all about what wholesaler and retailer margins are, ouch!
I remember those House Design books.
In that same period we created a couple of software programs, sold in boxes in Egghead (Comp USA and other places). One, closely tied to a House Design book (perhaps yours), was called Planix 3D Exterior Designer. We used a book such as yours to "borrow" a number of home designs, which then became starting models for the mini-CAD system.
For another of our products, Planix Deck 3D, we found a book called something like "Deck Design", purchased a bunch of left over copies and included the book in the box with the software.
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
Kent, I may have something for you but you may need to clean it up.
However, it didn't start life in SketchUp. It is a freebie from "Great Buildings Online" and created in Design Workshop. It is Shroder Haus. I imported into SketchUp, cleaned it up a little and I use if for soome class demos. I took some liberties with the colours but you can change that back. I has an interior including piano and furniture etc.If you would like to have a play with that, I expect you may need to say that it came originally form Great Buildings and was modified in SketchUp. I don't even need my name mentioned.
Let me know.susan.sorger AT entouragearts.com
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Why are the people supporting Kent in his 'free' adventure the ones who promote themselves here on a commercial base?
(...hinting on the advertisement signatures people post at the bottom of their replies...)I hope this forum isn't getting too commercial.
We already bare with the adsense advertisements...This thread started with an opening line that advertises a book from Amazon....
Luckily this got moved to the corner bar. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
Why are the people supporting Kent in his 'free' adventure the ones who promote themselves here on a commercial base?
I would say that "I am amazed by the amount of negative response to this issue", but I guess it is not that surprising (unfortunately).
I think it is better to be friendly and support anyone you can.
We have made changes to RpTreeMaker specifically to make it work better with Podium, V-Ray and Kerkythea. Someone did ask why we were doing this (since we sell a competitive product).
Another adviser had good advice: "Don't worry about the competitors. Anything you can do to help promote the concept of better rendering will help you and your own renderer in the long run."
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
@sorgesu said:
He did not set out to personally insult you, it wasn't necessary to afford him such a poor welcome.
How does not agreeing with someone equate to affording him a poor welcome? As I said before, this is a forum, a place of debate. People merely disagreed with Kent, and explained why they didn't. They didn't tar and feather him.
Kent's conclusion that he apparently isn't welcome here, is a bit exaggerated, I think. Chill, K-man!
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Kent
It was not my intention to humiliate you or "beat up on you". I hope that you will keep posting.
| do appreciate the tight spot you are in. Maybe I over-reacted as I'm a bit fed up of being asked to do free work, it sometimes seems like enquiries like that far outnumber the paid jobs.
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Stinkie, kent was hardly welcomed with open arms, was he?
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Hi Al,
Your contribution to the SU community is great!
I like it how you mix free add-ons with commercial ones.
No problem with that.It's just that the degree of 'commerciality' on this forum is increasing.
I am not sure if that's a good thing.This thread can easily be put here as viral marketing to promote a book...
(I am not saying it is) -
I feel really bad now. I'm not a ranting nutter usually, I hate upsetting people.
Sorry to all that I offended.
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@remus said:
Stinkie, kent was hardly welcomed with open arms, was he?
No, he wasn't. Then again, he himself didn't excell in courtesy:
@kent l said:
With all due respect, I didn't post this request to get in a philosophical debate with some stranger who doesn't know me or the publishing industry. There are tremendous expenses involved in writing and illustrating a 450 page, four color book, much time and money invested, etc.
The above is elaboratorese for "shut up". Public forum. Debate. Etc. When posting on a forum like this, one simply cannot ad hoc deny others their right to share their view, even if they do not agree with you.
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I don't think there's any need to feel sorry. All you did, was disagree with Kent. You did so both politely and eloquently.
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Kwist,
I'm sorry the "signature" offends you. I specifically asked and got permission for that last year from the moderators. I don't want to do anything "against the rules".
I'm sorry that people who are doing the best they can to make a living is offensive to you. I have been a long standing member of the SketchUp community and slowly tranformed into selling commercial products over time. I developed many friends here and most of them are "rooting" for me and support me. I like to support others who are trying to start or promote a business as well as I know how tough it is. Generally the products that are advertised in and around forums such as this are quite directed and geared to the very audience that participates in the forum. It can be useful. If there weren't many people who were interested in the advertised products then people wouldn't advertise, so clearly some people find the adverts beneficial.I don't know why those of you who are in a "service" business think that any one who is selling a product is rolling in dough and represents evil big business and has no right to bring your attention to their product. Architecture is a specialized and tiny market and traditional advertising is so expensive as to make it impossible to use and still offer the product at a marketable price.
Yes I support any individual or group of individuals who is starting a business, struggling with a business and small enough to be personally involved in these forums. That is not to say I support only people who sell a product. I also offers services in training and modelling. I certainly understand the point of view that those of us who are performing a service are too often aske to provide above and beyond the contracted amount for free and, yes it is frustrating, but this isn't that situation. I give away a whole bunch of my stuff for free under various circumstances. Not the least is my time and my knowledge but often hard product as well. It is sometimes good business to do so and it is sometimes me just plain wanting to be helpful.
I have mouths to feed, as do you but I don't receive a paycheck. It is easy to be holier-than-though if you haven't tried to run your own business and have no empathy. Maybe you have run your own business and are so overwhelmingly successful that you don't have to make any marketing efforts. If so, then lucky you but we are not all so fortuneate. I do aplogize that my trying to make a living is so repugnant to you.
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Linea you should not feel guilty at all. One should not give ones work for free , full stop.
I am sick of people telling how this is a standard in industry....using other people to better themselves.
Apart from having architectural firm for nearly 20 years I also lecture at Northampton University. I should use my students do work for free for me. Hell no. It is imoral and I would never approve of that.Susan I am pretty sure you have a lot of entourage DVD which are not selling well and collecting dust. Why don't you send them to me and in return I will tell all my clients and students about you. It is pretty much standard sort of thing in our industry.
edit: for the record these are my peersonal views and nothing to do with Podium
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