Impressive Sketchup House model needed
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Thanks Al!
That's very helpful information!
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@unknownuser said:
Well, no offense, but you must have a very distorted view of the publishing industry and the profits made. I sold those 300,000 copies over a 15 year period and split the proceeds with my co-author. The money went for food, utilities and the other things most of us have to pay for with our career proceeds.
People in glass houses....
Hi Kent
I am not speaking for the whole community here, just me, but this is the way I see it;
You are a professional writer, you are paid for your work. Most of us here are professional designers and modellers that have spent years training, learning and developing. You expect us to work for you for free? We are not worthless. For many of us this is our primary source of income.
What you are asking for is not just any old 3d model. It is a fully realised architectural design. This requires education and experience. The time we've put in to learn how to do this will never be fully reimbursed financially, and I'm sure that is the same for writers so you should realise what you are asking seems very unreasonable.
You must, likewise, have a very distorted view of our industry and the profits made. Our money also goes on food, utilities and the other things most of us have to pay for with our career proceeds. We all help each other out when we can but don't forget you will be profiting from this. I respect your worth as a writer, please respect our skills too.
If you had said "I need help and advice finishing off my Sketchup model for my book cover" that would be a whole different story.
I'm sure there will be people here that will help you but I hope others consider what kind of message this sends out. With the exception of charity it is not sustainable to work for free and it will never gain Sketchup modellers any respect.
All the best with the book, if you pay for a bespoke model for the cover that perfectly suits your needs, surely you will most likely make more profit.
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@unknownuser said:
I'm sure there will be people here that will help you but I hope others consider what kind of message this sends out. With the exception of charity it is not sustainable to work for free and it will never gain Sketchup modellers any respect.
All the best with the book, if you pay for a bespoke model for the cover that perfectly suits your needs, surely you will most likely make more profit.
With all due respect, I didn't post this request to get in a philosophical debate with some stranger who doesn't know me or the publishing industry. There are tremendous expenses involved in writing and illustrating a 450 page, four color book, much time and money invested, etc.
I stated a need, and set the terms, and anyone who was interested could respond. If you're not interested, fine. But don't proceed to lecture me about the value of your work vs. mine.
I suspect there are some people on this board who understand the concept of market trade. I am offering a free advertising vehicle for the display of a designer's work on the shelves of bookstores and libraries for several years along with an acknowledgment. In exchange, I'm asking for free use of a drawing, most likely one produced for another project. Have you priced advertising lately? The costs of publishing a full color plan book? There will be about a hundred free photos in the book from construction manufacturers, whose marketing departments are more than happy to advertise their product at no charge. Both parties benefit.
If you can't appreciate this concept, why not just move on?
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I love this discussion
.Off course Sepo and Linea are right.
Good luck with your book.
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Fo the right person, it might be a great deal. I don't make buildings and I'm not self employed. Therefore, if I did it, it would be a huge waste. I'd have to make it from scratch and then everyone could see my name, but for what? I'm not selling my services. So I don't need advertisement.
But for someone who does this type of work already, has a model that would be suitable, and needs free advertising, this might be just right for them.
Its not easily a right or wrong scenario. Just don't apply if its not right for you.
Chris
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Kent,
Sorry, but I would be another that would agree with the other replies you don't agree with. While you are making money selling 300,000 copies (and proud to tell us) you need to understand we also work for income (most of the time). Free advertising is really not what I would consider you are offering. Remember you are a professional writer, but we are also professional designers....both of which are professional positions and deserve to get paid. Photos are far different than making a 3D model. While taking a photo can take time, snapping a photo rarely takes as much time as a detailed 3d model like the request. Maybe it was the tone of your reply or the "We sold 300,000 copies but can't offer you a dime" that spun me wrong, but I think if you are profiting from the book then those helping with it should be paid as well.
Glass houses....
Scott
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@unknownuser said:
Kent,
Sorry, but I would be another that would agree with the other replies you don't agree with. While you are making money selling 300,000 copies (and proud to tell us) you need to understand we also work for income (most of the time). Free advertising is really not what I would consider you are offering. Remember you are a professional writer, but we are also professional designers....both of which are professional positions and deserve to get paid. Photos are far different than making a 3D model. While taking a photo can take time, snapping a photo rarely takes as much time as a detailed 3d model like the request. Maybe it was the tone of your reply or the "We sold 300,000 copies but can't offer you a dime" that spun me wrong, but I think if you are profiting from the book then those helping with it should be paid as well.
Glass houses....
Scott
Scott, the purpose of mentioning the 300,000 copies is precisely to explain the advertising possibilities. If I only sell a few books, it's obviously not much of a deal for anyone.
I can't believe that anyone would take issue with this. Got a plan design business you want to promote? Offer a drawing in exchange for exposure. I offer free excerpts and articles from my book all the time to promote my business. Don't want to do that? Don't have a business? That's fine too. Move on. Nothing of interest here.
This has nothing to do with anyone's talent, worth, time, etc. I'm a Sketchup artist too, drawing many of my own illustrations. I know how long it takes. If you or anyone else here doesn't think free exposure is worth offering your hard earned work, that's fine.
But I don't understand the need of some people here to criticize the work of others.
Since everyone here seems to think there's some pot of gold at the end of the book rainbow, let me put this in perspective. I will make about $15,000 per year on this book for 3-4 years. That's after spending two years assembling and writing it with no pay. It takes about 5-700 hours. I have to contact hundreds of people to get photos and establish rights. I travel to promote the book. I spend countless hours making my own sketchup drawings. I post on blogs to promote the book. After 4 years, the book goes stale and I have to refresh it with another round of updates.
I suspect many of you designers make more per hour than I do.
If I offered money for the illustrations and photos used in the book, there would be no profits left for the author.So, again, just exactly why do you think I deserve all this animosity?????
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It seems you had your free publicity now as well.....since you posted the Amazon link to your book.
Oh the irony! -
@kent l said:
I stated a need, and set the terms, and anyone who was interested could respond. If you're not interested, fine. But don't proceed to lecture me about the value of your work vs. mine.
(...)
If you can't appreciate this concept, why not just move on?
If you dislike people chiming in, why not send a couple of e-mails, rather than posting on a public forum? By definition, a forum is a place where people debate each other. That said, good luck with the book, though.
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@unknownuser said:
I didn't post this request to get in a philosophical debate with some stranger who doesn't know me or the publishing industry ....
I suspect there are some people on this board who understand the concept of market trade
No I don't know you, or much about publishing. Market trade however, yeah I think I understand that. You do a job for a commercial enterprise. You are paid for it.
Even though I know nothing about publishing I would have thought settling for an off the shelf image for the cover of your book, a decision that contributes to success in the marketplace isn't the best marketing strategy. Because you won't pay for an image that would best suit your book you have set the value of your book cover at zero. I can understand that a past project that somebody has may well do the job, but you see no reason to pay them, not even a few pence?.
I don't disagree that your book is a good advertising vehicle for a 3d artist so maybe I'm shortsighted, but I have heard "marketing" suggested as a reason to work for free so many times.
Why is it that people that draw for a living are expected to give their work away in order to get exposure? I have heard this anology before; You can't go to the local grocery store, pick up a weeks shop and then say to the owner, "I'm not paying but I'll tell everybody else to come here". -
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@unknownuser said:
Hope you don't mind but this is not really a discussion about SketchUp, so I have moved it to the Corner Bar as It doesn't seem to fit into any other category.
James, that's fine by me. I never intended this to be some debate. I'm obviously not welcome here, so this will be my last post.
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@Kent,
Imagine this:"***I'm an author of an impressive House model . It is a good residential house design drawn with sufficient detail so that you can do an "x-ray" shot of the exterior and interior, showing all the layers of construction.
What I need, is a good book project on construction and remodeling for my design to be showcased in and to be used as illustrations in full color.
If any of you writers have such a book project on construction and remodeling , I'd be interested in discussing it with you. Due to the market and the costs of making design, I can't offer you any money. However, I can give you a byline and an acknowledgment inside the book and on my website. This could be some good free advertising for a writer, considering that the design has won a lot of awards.
If you're interested, contact me at: "... "
Thanks!***"
Would you, being a writer, sign up for it?
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Now, that was exciting 1 1/2 pages of thread.
wow.
Been a while since someone got chased off, I think.
Of course, I agree with all of the other boys.
How many times have I heard some variation of the theme that if I work for free/cheap, then the client is in the position to have "really important people" see it and I will get tons of work from my "donation".
And I think we all know how much work I get from these arrangements.
big fat zero.
And I think we all know how many of these jobs I am now interested in.
big fat zero.
Kent, unfortunately, you struck a bunch of really interesting, unselfish, and talented guys wrong, whether through your tone or your "offer". If you make the effort to become a part of our community, you will find that this forum is one of the best on the web, and the people here are some of the most helpful I have seen anywhere. Since you are writing a book about SU, I would think that you would enjoy being a member of one of the great results of our little "cultist" software.
Just my early morning thoughts, anyway.
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Hi Kent,
I believe you! Over a 15 year period (back in the 80s, 90s)I authored and published 6 editions of the ABS Book of House Designs. It started with 25 house design and eventually ended up with 225 designs. I know the costs involved in dealing with publishers, that is why I did it myself. I also know all about what wholesaler and retailer margins are, ouch!
I suggest that you rethink the publication and possibly incorporate advertising! This is how I covered the cost of production. At the time I used to aim for advert numbers that would cover the actual production costs and it worked quite well. In the latter publications I used to have comfortable margins.
The adverts were all related to the building industry and readers found them useful.My main objective was to sell house designs and over a 15 year period I sold 5,000 plus. I stopped publishing because I moved into property development. But I am thinking about launching the book again now that I now operate a scaled down operation.
I suggest you think about offering a simple deal to the guys that are willing to allow use of their House Designs. This might just be a page that shows the services they have on offer and maybe some thumbnails of the various house designs they have 'in stock' and of course guideline prices. Hey! maybe it might be possible to turn the tables and CHARGE them for YOUR service ...... but again I would not push it too hard
I think you would be well advise to target and deal with just ONE designer in a businesslike manner, one that would work for both of you.
Mike
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Poor Kent. I should hold my tongue becuase I can't tell you the number of times I have posted something here that I thought was innocuous and then had people jump all over me. I'm still here though.
Kent, for the most part people here are amazing and helpful and this is really a worthwhile place to be.
Then someone gets a bee in his bonnet and a bunch of people jump on board and all hell breaks loose.I don't think there was anything at all wrong with Kent's "tone". He was providig you the background info and explaining the terms. What he is suggesting is exactly the way it is done all the time in publishing this sort of trade book.
If you were being "commissioned" to model something to his "specs" you would indeed be within your rights to complain. But he doesn't want anything specific. Anything you already have that you have already been paid for but still retain the rights for will do? How much money do you want for something that you have kicking around any way? Will $100 make you happy? I suppose he could come up with that but why bother when some other person will likely be happy to have his name in print for free? Like I said, happens all the time. It is the way things work.I recently completed a stint as technical editor for a new SketchUp book by Bonnie Roskes. It is being published by O'Reilly and the amount of detailed work I needed to do was overwhelming. As a knowledgeable professional what I got paid was a joke. Worse, I had to forego othe work that would have paid well while I was doing it. This is not unusual. The publishing company relies on your hope and understanding that having your name on there is a form of payment. In fact, I don't think Bonnie will make much on the book herself either. O'Reilly might. Ask Aidan Chopra how many "millions" he has NOT made for the SketchUp for Dummies book. How about asking Jim Leggit how lucrative his books are? Generally,publishing a book, particularly a trade book, is not a way to make your fortune. There tend to be other aspirations associated with publishing the book.
Regardless, if you don't think that you would like to offer your model that has been kicking around gathering dust, for the sake of a possible little advertising, then don't. Just get out of the way and let the guy who thinks it is a good deal get in on it. Why on earth would you beat up on someone who is doing nothing different than the industry does all the time. He did not set out to personally insult you, it wasn't necessary to afford him such a poor welcome.
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@mike lucey said:
Over a 15 year period (back in the 80s, 90s)I authored and published 6 editions of the ABS Book of House Designs. It started with 25 house design and eventually ended up with 225 designs. I know the costs involved in dealing with publishers, that is why I did it myself. I also know all about what wholesaler and retailer margins are, ouch!
I remember those House Design books.
In that same period we created a couple of software programs, sold in boxes in Egghead (Comp USA and other places). One, closely tied to a House Design book (perhaps yours), was called Planix 3D Exterior Designer. We used a book such as yours to "borrow" a number of home designs, which then became starting models for the mini-CAD system.
For another of our products, Planix Deck 3D, we found a book called something like "Deck Design", purchased a bunch of left over copies and included the book in the box with the software.
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus -
Kent, I may have something for you but you may need to clean it up.
However, it didn't start life in SketchUp. It is a freebie from "Great Buildings Online" and created in Design Workshop. It is Shroder Haus. I imported into SketchUp, cleaned it up a little and I use if for soome class demos. I took some liberties with the colours but you can change that back. I has an interior including piano and furniture etc.If you would like to have a play with that, I expect you may need to say that it came originally form Great Buildings and was modified in SketchUp. I don't even need my name mentioned.
Let me know.susan.sorger AT entouragearts.com
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Why are the people supporting Kent in his 'free' adventure the ones who promote themselves here on a commercial base?
(...hinting on the advertisement signatures people post at the bottom of their replies...)I hope this forum isn't getting too commercial.
We already bare with the adsense advertisements...This thread started with an opening line that advertises a book from Amazon....
Luckily this got moved to the corner bar. -
@kwistenbiebel said:
Why are the people supporting Kent in his 'free' adventure the ones who promote themselves here on a commercial base?
I would say that "I am amazed by the amount of negative response to this issue", but I guess it is not that surprising (unfortunately).
I think it is better to be friendly and support anyone you can.
We have made changes to RpTreeMaker specifically to make it work better with Podium, V-Ray and Kerkythea. Someone did ask why we were doing this (since we sell a competitive product).
Another adviser had good advice: "Don't worry about the competitors. Anything you can do to help promote the concept of better rendering will help you and your own renderer in the long run."
Al Hart
IRender nXt from Render Plus
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