Bush vs Shoe
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@sepo said:
Bol***** !!!It is very easy to say while sitting in comfy home with plenty of food on your table. How would you feel if you are now living in country on its knees, with hospitals not functioning, with your home distroyed, where tens of thousands of people have been killed (read your family)when you can't buy petrol in spite of being one of the largest producers of oil.
Than comes da man and tell you how lucky you are to live in democracy...I did not even propose non-violence (Mohandis Ghandi lived in such a country and freed his people). But it just destroys any hope of making peace if you shoot the guy with the white flag. Sure, you might try to blow Bush up on the way to the meeting. But if you both go to the meeting in good faith, keep your shoes on. The Arab people are historically famous in their fair treatment of their enemies.
As I said earlier, Bush showed good ducking form and stood up like a man. He also was correct in his response thereafter. A true tyrant would have had the guy executed forthwith. Hell, the press would not have been invited.
Respect and diplomatic rules protect both parties. Still my comments are more directed to this forum than to that journalist. I found it amusing. I simply disagreed with the piling-on about one wrong justifying another. Perhaps it IS a theoretical debate for the privileged; but I don't have reason as yet to throw out my principles, either out of guilt or by your argument.
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It was like a scene of anarchy,…not of democracy…
Cornel
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As I said before it is very easy to be of high moral when does not affect you. I have good experience of war and that is where I am coming from. My post is not there to change really anyones mind.
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@sepo said:
It could be that I did not understand your post.... I read it in a way that they would chop of his head if he threw the shoe on the local leader. Is that what you meant?
I meant that, in spite of all the things Bush has done, most of us who participate in this forum live in countries where freedom of expression, religion and human rights are valued ways of life. The man who threw the shoe at Bush will most likely not be subjected to any punishment close to what he would receive if he was a protester in his own country. Here we are laughing and playing games about the President of the United States getting hit by a shoe, while the guy who did it comes from a country where they cut your head off if you throw a shoe at their leader.
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I think you presume a lot . Not all is like you see on the TV or read in paper. Yes they may not have same cultural values like us but if you were in their shoes (excuse my punn) you would think diferrently.
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A little something to lighten the mood:
Not mine btw.
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@sepo said:
I think you presume a lot . Not all is like you see on the TV or read in paper. Yes they may not have same cultural values like us but if you were in their shoes (excuse my punn) you would think diferrently.
Let me try this once more...
My point is that the man who threw the shoe, yes, I agree he has a right to regard Bush as a tyrant who invaded his country, was able to get away with it because he is protected by the very principles he wants to overthrow.
I am not saying that all Middle Eastern people are evil, I am simply pointing out the discordant nature of the situation as I see it.
As far as 'cultural values' go, well, I'll leave that up you to make your own evaluations as to which you would prefer.
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@double espresso said:
My point is that the man who threw the shoe, yes, I agree he has a right to regard Bush as a tyrant who invaded his country, was able to get away with it because he is protected by the very principles he wants to overthrow.
Excusez-moi? I have to ask: have you been taking acid?
(Hi Sid!
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There is no doubt in my mind where I belong culturally. I am European and proud of it.
And if by protection you mean braking an arm, ribs and good kicking well .... -
Hi Stinkie
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@unknownuser said:
@double espresso said:
My point is that the man who threw the shoe, yes, I agree he has a right to regard Bush as a tyrant who invaded his country, was able to get away with it because he is protected by the very principles he wants to overthrow.
Excusez-moi? I have to ask: have you been taking acid?
(Hi Sid!
)Why would you think I'm on acid?
Clearly, the intent of my comment has been lost in translation. I give up. -
Unless your initial comment was meant to be ironic, and I didn't get that, nothing was 'lost in translation'. I asked whether you're on acid because of your bizarre assumtion the Iraqi journalist wants to overthrow the principles that protect him. Clearly you're assuming far too much.
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@sepo said:
As I said before it is very easy to be of high moral when does not affect you. I have good experience of war and that is where I am coming from. My post is not there to change really anyones mind.
DOESN'T AFFECT ME?
Eight years and now look at my country! Military trashed. Economy screwed. Human rights degraded. International honor in the gutter.
Fortunately not all those who experience war become terrorists or even shoe throwers. Or then where would we be? We have some of our greatest leaders from the experience of wars, sad as that seems.
BTW what did I do to make the world a safer place? For one I voted against Bush twice, and then I voted against McCain. (just 'cause I can see another ad hominem flying in from the other side.)
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@unknownuser said:
Unless your initial comment was meant to be ironic, and I didn't get that, nothing was 'lost in translation'. I asked whether you're on acid because of your bizarre assumtion the Iraqi journalist wants to overthrow the principles that protect him. Clearly you're assuming far too much.
Unfortunately, you seem to be so consumed by your hatred of Bush that whatever I say will always be related back to him. The principles that I am speaking of are the ones that all of us who live in Western Society embrace. Freedom of speech and religion, equality for women etc. We take these rights for granted and it occurred to me while I was watching how this thread evolved that while the Iraqi reporter obviously hates Bush and all he stands for, he will probably escape punishment for his action because of the Western principles he deplores.
I wonder if he threw a shoe at a member of the Saudi Royal Family he would fare so well. -
I just do not see the big deal in all of this, if the reporter was an American and he threw two rotten tomatoes and missed what would happen to him?
The shoe is not a deadly weapon and it's the muslim equivalent of a western 'rotten tomato'.I doubt that the American reporter would end up with such severe injuries and possible 15 years imprisonment.
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@double espresso said:
@unknownuser said:
Unless your initial comment was meant to be ironic, and I didn't get that, nothing was 'lost in translation'. I asked whether you're on acid because of your bizarre assumtion the Iraqi journalist wants to overthrow the principles that protect him. Clearly you're assuming far too much.
Unfortunately, you seem to be so consumed by your hatred of Bush that whatever I say will always be related back to him. The principles that I am speaking of are the ones that all of us who live in Western Society embrace. Freedom of speech and religion, equality for women etc. We take these rights for granted and it occurred to me while I was watching how this thread evolved that while the Iraqi reporter obviously hates Bush and all he stands for, he will probably escape punishment for his action because of the Western principles he deplores.
I wonder if he threw a shoe at a member of the Saudi Royal Family he would fare so well.I understood the journalist is/was punished/hurt because Maliki was so close to the incident. Your point about Western principles is not lost on me, by the way.
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@unknownuser said:
The principles that I am speaking of are the ones that all of us who live in Western Society embrace.
Does that include Bush's lies that he had strong evidence that Iraq was linked to 911 and had Weapons of Mass destruction? Claims that he later denied making. Great principles.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7SUBGtRIiXoAs I said, he was lucky it was just a shoe. Solo is right, if an american or european had thrown fruit at an arab leader, the news channels would bill it as hilarious and repeat the video for weeks.
Incidentally it seems the shoe thrower was beaten in custody.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/shoe-throwing-journalist-beaten-according-brother-20081217Lets put this in perspective, on one side is a man who lied and started a war.
On the other side a man throws a sandal and misses. -
@linea said:
Lets put this in perspective, on one side is a man who lied and started a war.
On the other side a man throws a sandal and misses.I'll drink to that. Let's leave this and go over and see how Kevin's doing on that car.
Why is the Google ad with this thread now: "Arab Women--Hot!" ???
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@pbacot said:
Why is the Google ad with this thread now: "Arab Women--Hot!" ???
These Google ads are creeping me out- I was just thinking about hot Arabic women!
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Alan, I just noticed something, we are almost perfectly synchronised- look at our post count!
It's like when women who work together gradually synchronise their monthlies, especially....
...hot arab women.
p.s. I wonder if this contravenes the Google ad sense rules? I'll have to check the rules on my powerful feature-packed Hewlett-Packard laptop while I sit here drinking a refreshing ice cold Coca-Cola.
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